Im doing my first WC and my only problem is unrest

[Vulkandrache]

fabricate claims

How many provinces do you expect to take per decade? 10? 20?
You wont be getting much more than that with claims.

 

[Denkt]

How many provinces do you expect to take per decade? 10? 20?
You wont be getting much more than that with claims.

Before absolutism you don't really need to take that many provinces, just simply preparerar for the mass conquest that happen when you cap out your absolutism and get imperialism cb. Everying before 1600 should really just be done to help the mass expansion that happens at that point, which is not necessarily to waste huge amount of diplo power or pick religious ideas.

 

[Lor360]

Thank you so much for all of these answers, they have been realy informative. I just have 2 more questions:

How absolutley mandatory is the administrative idea group early on? I asume picking it up as the 6th idea group (around 1690) would be way too late?

Im 99% certain, but just to be sure: trade companying land is useless unless im collecting upstream from that lands node right? If I TC Africa but Im collecting in Bengal, I basicaly just got a bit less unrest and extra merchant in exchange for 0 manpower and money in my African provinces?

 

[CountKino]

Thank you so much for all of these answers, they have been realy informative. I just have 2 more questions:

How absolutley mandatory is the administrative idea group early on? I asume picking it up as the 6th idea group (around 1690) would be way too late?

Im 99% certain, but just to be sure: trade companying land is useless unless im collecting upstream from that lands node right? If I TC Africa but Im collecting in Bengal, I basicaly just got a bit less unrest and extra merchant in exchange for 0 manpower and money in my African provinces?

25% CCR is a fairly massive modifier, if you wait until 1690 you'll have really slowed down your conquest due to lack of adm points

No, Trade Company land is always awesome. They go down to 0% autonomy without needing a full core, or a state slot. So while you won't get any tax or manpower, you will get 100% of production and 100% of the force limit, while also getting the trade power. General rule: it is always worth adding land to a Trade Company. Not to mention you get more merchants who can collect in different nodes or boost income in your main node.

 

[Denkt]

You can earn extreme money from trade because each trade node jump do increase the value as long as a merchant is present and transfer trade. The asian trade goods can be worth several times their value when they reach Europe. Don't think anything can compete with trade in terms of how much money you can make from it if setup correctly.

How absolutley mandatory is the administrative idea group early on? I asume picking it up as the 6th idea group (around 1690) would be way too late?

Early game, pre 1600 and before age of absolutism should simply be about preparing for the mass conquest that will happen during the last two ages because it is during these two ages you can get the high administrative efficiency which make coring and vassal annexation extremely cheap and make large conquest during wars possible.

You want to have the core cost reduction if not the whole idea group ready during early 1600 but before that is less important as the only thing important before the age of absolutism is to make yourself ready for the age of absolutism.

 

[PhoenixG]

picking admin early means you save more admin points in your whole campaign. Starting from absolutism the admin you save will be less due the cost is already reduced by admin eff, but it's still important due it reduce coring time. Besides that admin idea also gives you cheaper loans, mercs and more mercs which is also important in late game WC.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

...That's terrible advice lmao. 3 admin idea groups and 2 diplo?? You'll be starving for points. And overflowing on mil ones.

Yet another forum expert questioning the idea group choice of a player that managed to do a true one tag as Ryukyu (at very hard difficulty) on the current patch. massive :facepalm:

I read up on a few WC guides and everything is going smoothly.

I suggest you read another WC guide where it says you need to pick Humanist and religious within the 1st four idea groups.

 

[AurochsAway]

Are you retarded? You can't compare a Ryukyu WC and its strategies done by someone with thousands of hours in-game on very hard to a normal WC done by a beginner. Especially one that doesn't micro every last day and monarch point. When he mentioned those idea group picks I didn't know he meant a Ryukyu based WC.

I also never claimed to be an expert so idk what you're smoking.

You claimed a pretty standard tactic - which has been around since the earliest patches of EUIV - was terrible advice, in a very dismissive fashion. That's what was smoked.

Also this thread is about a Ryuku WC.

 

[bly08]

Exactly. I don't know why you'd need religious early game @bly08 With separatist rebels all but gone, you only have to deal with religious ones from conversion and you can instead get some other idea group. I'm not saying you never ever take religious early but with permanent claims thanks to the new mission system, and good use of diplomats, you're pretty fine. That might be a difference in playstyles though admittedly since I tend to pick one religious group (my own) and focus on them until they're dead for reducing AE so early game I can keep my religious unity high even with slow conversion. Late game I pick it a fair bit.

How will separatist rebels be gone if you have neither Religious nor Humanist? Or are you now saying Humanist is okay within the first five groups but Religious isn't? Unless you're taking something like 1k dev by Imperialism, which isn't WC pace, you will need Deus Vult to expand around the Age of Absolutism before Imperialism is unlocked. Otherwise every 100 WS after admin efficiency costs 200-300 dip which not only delays Imperialism but also Diplomatic ideas which should be filled during that time. If you can manage until Imperialism then there's no need to pick Religious unless for OF. Wasting thousands and thousands of dip every game on unjustified demands is less than optimal, it's not an issue of playstyles.

Are you retarded? You can't compare a Ryukyu WC and its strategies done by someone with thousands of hours in-game on very hard to a normal WC done by a beginner. Especially one that doesn't micro every last day and monarch point. When he mentioned those idea group picks I didn't know he meant a Ryukyu based WC.

I also never claimed to be an expert so idk what you're smoking.

The only difference between VH and normal are stronger AIs, which means anything that works on VH should definitely work on normal. Often the reason for getting idea groups at all is to save on monarch points so it doesn't matter which difficulty you're spending them on. I recommended Exploration first which means it's for Ryukyu, but the standard non horde WC build should also have Religious and Humanist in the first five groups. The default first five should be some order of Admin/Influence/Humanist/Religious/Diplomatic. If there are specific scenarios where Mil ideas or Explo are needed then Diplomatic can be swapped out. Otherwise this is pretty set in stone if you want to expand at the optimal pace. Mil ideas only help with one type of bottleneck which is the manpower cost and time spent on war. The other bottlenecks such as points, rebels, and AE are far more likely to be the limiting factors during early/mid game expansion.

 

[bly08]

Using vassals will help alot because they have their own monarch points and thus can core land you can not afford to core which allow you to expand much more rapidly. Vassals also can deal with religions and cultures who they accept better than you. Like a vassal sunni Ottoman can deal with sunni land and especially sunni land in their culture group with not so much problem.

Humanist is quite good at reducing unrest. You get -2 everywhere, -3 from wrong religion and -5 unrest from separatism (2 years worth of separatism is 1 unrest). It also unlock a policy together with offensive which give -1 unrest and -5 years separatism.

There is a number of policies which can reduce unrest by -1 each, aristocratic + influence may be one of the easier to achieve because you probably have picked up influence in a WC game.

If you are a republic you should also pick up plutocracy for the -2 unrest it give you and like aristocratic it have a -1 unrest policy with influence.



Not if you take key provinces and use these to fabricate claims on their neighbors and use vassals to feed back their cores.

Vassals cannot replace Humanist during a WC, they are guaranteed to get rebels with almost any amount of overextension even for same culture/religion land unless the vassal has Humanist, and even then they'll still get rebels for whatever reason or magically fall to -3 stab.

Ryukyu needs all TC land to itself, some of Africa can be fed to vassals. Otherwise there are no good vassals to take until much later in Levantine and Persian land. Plutocratic is a good idea for Ryukyu but I don't like taking it early, and the unrest reduction is too little to matter later.

Before absolutism you don't really need to take that many provinces, just simply preparerar for the mass conquest that happen when you cap out your absolutism and get imperialism cb. Everying before 1600 should really just be done to help the mass expansion that happens at that point, which is not necessarily to waste huge amount of diplo power or pick religious ideas.

It is true you don't need to take a lot of land pre absolutism, but not a lot is still something like 2 - 3k for Ryukyu. Imperialism doesn't unlock until 1680-1690 at the earliest and there's still 60-70 years of having admin efficiency without Imperialism where Ryukyu should have the power base established to chain 100 WS wars.

 

[giovdb]

Not if you take key provinces and use these to fabricate claims on their neighbors and use vassals to feed back their cores.

That's too slow for my taste. If I attack a nation, I try to annex or take as much as I possible can from them in each war. If they only have one of two provinces bordering me (the only ones claims can be put on), I'm not going to just take that one or two then wait the truce and fabricate more claims as that's a waste of time. I'll just take them all (assuming I can core them). And for rapid conquest like that, Religious is key.

 

[bbqftw]

If you go humanist, you can add religious or influence to hit imperialism timing well (you will need at least one of these two groups).

But with humanist influence you are committed to using neighbor bonus to catch up to 23. So expect massive corruption costs from going 22/7/22 or the like.

Using vassals will help alot because they have their own monarch points and thus can core land you can not afford to core which allow you to expand much more rapidly. Vassals also can deal with religions and cultures who they accept better than you. Like a vassal sunni Ottoman can deal with sunni land and especially sunni land in their culture group with not so much problem.

Humanist is quite good at reducing unrest. You get -2 everywhere, -3 from wrong religion and -5 unrest from separatism (2 years worth of separatism is 1 unrest). It also unlock a policy together with offensive which give -1 unrest and -5 years separatism.

There is a number of policies which can reduce unrest by -1 each, aristocratic + influence may be one of the easier to achieve because you probably have picked up influence in a WC game.

If you are a republic you should also pick up plutocracy for the -2 unrest it give you and like aristocratic it have a -1 unrest policy with influence.



Not if you take key provinces and use these to fabricate claims on their neighbors and use vassals to feed back their cores.

you will be slowly driven insane by the incompetency of your vassals. Generally not worth the mental damage. Every WC using vassals = 1 month break from EU4 (and forums, in my case!!)

Post absolutism, vassals get even worse since they do not inherit your absolutism adm eff.

dunno where you're getting space to do luxury picks like aristo or pluto in first 5, since explo / humanist / influence / administrative are pretty high prio for the ryukyu start. Diplomatic very bad to delay w/ hum-inf combination as well.

I would think explo - humanist - influence - administrative, at some point cancel explo when possible, then diplo - quant - offensive (or reverse quant/offensive order)

 

[balmung60]

Thanks for the answers!

I just annexed 2 big vassals at once in Africa and am feeding the next 2 (Scotland and Timurids).

I conquered Indonesia and the Malacan trade node for money and figured I should go for easy African nations with low military technology. Should I try to conquer India instead next time?

As for unrest I figure if I take humanist I wont be able to keep up with converting so ill have:
+1 from religious unity
+2 non acepted culture
+2 from heaten religion
+2 from sow discontent from any rival
+5 from 99% overextension
(thats with 0 nationalism and good legitimacy)

Thats about +12 base unrest in random backwater provinces, will humanist realy cover that? I dont take it often since I usualy play taller, but that sounds realy OP.

Humanist will eat a LOT of that.

1. ) Humanist gives a flat +25% to religious unity, plus it gives +3 to tolerance of heretics and heathens, which means that heretics will only contribute 50% of normal to loss of religious unity and heathens will only contribute 75% of normal. Go Hindu and you can get the contribution from heathens down to 50% as well without actually running any policies or anything. If you culture shift and form Mughals, you can get tolerance of heathens to +3, which means no religious unity penalty and no real need to ever convert heathens. You can do the same by going Hindu or running the Native Assimilation Act and forming Malaya.
2.) Humanist gives you more promoted cultures to clean up that little issue
3.) Humanist outright reduces the unrest from heathen religions by giving tolerance thereof - before policies or religion bonuses, heathen religion becomes unrest neutral and heretics actually reduce unrest by 1
4.) Humanist also gives a flat -2 unrest across the board
5.) Humanist reduces Separatism by 10 years, which directly reduces the unrest from Separatism - it doesn't tick down faster, it actually starts with ten years off the time it takes, meaning that every conquered province has 5 less unrest than it would normally.

 

[giovdb]

If you go humanist, you can add religious or influence to hit imperialism timing well (you will need at least one of these two groups).

But with humanist influence you are committed to using neighbor bonus to catch up to 23. So expect massive corruption costs from going 22/7/22 or the like.


you will be slowly driven insane by the incompetency of your vassals. Generally not worth the mental damage. Every WC using vassals = 1 month break from EU4 (and forums, in my case!!)

Post absolutism, vassals get even worse since they do not inherit your absolutism adm eff.

If you use your vassals well you can make them huge, even after Absolutism and even Revolutionary. Just gotta plan it out

My vassals below are Najd, Novgorod, Kiev, and Teutonic Order.

I also had a pretty big Portugal which got annexed before i went after Russia.

From my experience, you don't need to take Influence early. As long as you keep granting land to your vassals (through vassal interaction screen), their liberty desire will stay low, therefore not needing to incorporate them for a long time. Just plan your conquest path so you can bring them with you. Notice how Nadj started in the middle east, but then I brought it up through Persia, through Chagatai, and down into Ming. I also released Novgorod and Kiev on my first war against Russia (took land then released) so that I could feed them the rest of Russia (along with T.O.). I took influence way later to incorporate the giants.

 

[giovdb]

I would also like to know what "one-click disasters" are in the game that make your empire just collapse?

(1) I had a very stable (non-WC) empire with Mali and just wanted to try out how much OE I can handle. One click on "accept peace terms" and I was on +180% OE, 5 years later my empire was gone.

Wiki says: "various nasty events will trigger, doing things such as lowering stability or hurting trade. The base frequency is one bad event per year, with the time decreasing with higher overextension."

It turned out to scale up from "one bad event per year" to "one bad event per day" (+15 unrest to a province) , leading to rebel armies that were ten fold my force limit. It would have taken a click-fest for hours to clean all these rebels.

(2) Just had a quite similar play through with Italy. Because time ran out close to 1821 I decided to break a truce timer. One click, the desaster "desire of liberty" kicked in because of low stab -> +10 unrest, and co-accidentally +5 from "counter revolution". Again, rebels are popping up every day and it would take hours of hours clicking my troops through my rebel empire.

(3) ???

Are there any other "one click -> game over" events one should know about?

Start your own thread and we can help you with this topic

 

[shinyespeon]

If you use your vassals well you can make them huge, even after Absolutism and even Revolutionary. Just gotta plan it out

My vassals below are Najd, Novgorod, Kiev, and Teutonic Order.

View attachment 400070
View attachment 400067View attachment 400068
I also had a pretty big Portugal which got annexed before i went after Russia.

From my experience, you don't need to take Influence early. As long as you keep granting land to your vassals (through vassal interaction screen), their liberty desire will stay low, therefore not needing to incorporate them for a long time. Just plan your conquest path so you can bring them with you. Notice how Nadj started in the middle east, but then I brought it up through Persia, through Chagatai, and down into Ming. I also released Novgorod and Kiev on my first war against Russia (took land then released) so that I could feed them the rest of Russia (along with T.O.). I took influence way later to incorporate the giants.

its not purely about liberty desire, its that vassals are brain damaged and rebel generating hellholes that should only be used as last resort. Exceptions are vassals that already hold large amounts of cores (novgorod, mamluk, Syria, Aragon/Naples/catalonia, Punjab, Delhi) or have lots of stabilizing power (najd, manchus that take humanist)

Its probably safest to scutage them post adm eff, due to unwillingness of vassal to pay down war ex, and merc recruit disband cycles that will pressure vassals heavily into bankruptcy. You can't use vassal claim cbs to full effect then, but that is small price to pay for your sanity.

With ryukyu you might have to use vassal anyways (haven't played modern ryukyu since CoC), but to use them as humanist substitute is recipe for pain

 

[giovdb]

its not purely about liberty desire, its that vassals are brain damaged and rebel generating hellholes that should only be used as last resort. Exceptions are vassals that already hold large amounts of cores (novgorod, mamluk, Syria, Aragon/Naples/catalonia, Punjab, Delhi) or have lots of stabilizing power (najd, manchus that take humanist)

Its probably safest to scutage them post adm eff, due to unwillingness of vassal to pay down war ex, and merc recruit disband cycles that will pressure vassals heavily into bankruptcy. You can't use vassal claim cbs to full effect then, but that is small price to pay for your sanity.

With ryukyu you might have to use vassal anyways (haven't played modern ryukyu since CoC), but to use them as humanist substitute is recipe for pain

Don't agree at all. And Nadj doesn't take Humanist - they are really good at religious conversions. My subjects on the screenshot above were all over 1500 development (if I remember right) and rebellions weren't at all issues. Also, with a million troops on the map, you have to keep some scattered around the world to deal with rebellions anyways, so taking care of the occasional vassal rebellion its a no biggie. I also set them all to aggressive, and when I invaded Europe for the the One Tag and finish One Faith, they helped me hunt down and destroy all enemies. It was glorious. In regards to Novgorod, I did not release them because of the cores... I released them because they took religious. I then Force Converted them to Catholic and gave them a ton of land. Their Liberty Desire was deep in the negatives FYI.

And I only set them to scuttage when I needed to return to war against a power that they were still coring. Then I undid it after. And their LD was still below zero.

On a side note unrelated to vassals, remember to deal with accepting/converting wrong culture if you ever have excess diplo... it helps a lot with rebellions.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Let's say you're Hindu.

Humanist in wrong-culture/religion provinces:

2 unrest from culture
5 unrest from overextension

-2 unrest from humanist
-1 unrest from decision (Hindu)
-2 unrest from tolerance (at 100 legitimacy) (+3 tolerance from humanist, +1 Hindu, +1 legitimacy = 2 tolerance of heathens)
-1 unrest from stability
-2 unrest from legitimacy (at 100)
-1 despotic monarchy
-2 theologian (if necessary)

This means that so long as you bank MIL for ruler contingencies, you can sustain -9 or -11 unrest even with just one stability. This gives you wiggle room for things like war exhaustion; heathen provinces should not be a significant revolt risk once separatism times out.

Islam's religious unrest decision is temporary, but they can get more than 1 heathen tolerance from Dhimmi and other benefits. Christianity can take holy sites and convert at a very fast pace with religious, but can also just go tolerance. Exploration + humanist lets you add another heathen tolerance, and there are quite a few -1 unrest policies available, including the aforementioned humanist + offensive which also reduces separatism.

You'll likely still get rebellions in provinces with separatism, but usually one and done. Humanism is king of late game convenience for sure and doesn't need religious to operate for most faiths.

Edit: If doing vassals late game, I recommend client states + scutage. Still rebel hell holes, but even given 200-300% OE (which you can't do with normal vassals) they core or mostly core it by the time you wait 10 years + annexation time so are reasonable OE sponges, and carry the benefit of concentrating the rebellions rather than making player deal with "very nasty" style events.

As a plus between client state modifier and leaving them with forts to pay down their debt their LD is easily managed, 500+ dev on them isn't out of reach to easily handle.

 

[Avil]

Now, hear me out: confucianism with humanist. Closer to endgame all religions gonna benefit from your true faith tolerance, and you might as well fire all your missionaries ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Just focus on conquering the nations that you gonna harmonize.

 

[shinyespeon]

Confucian lacks the power of the tolerance alternatives, Sunni and Hindu, and furthermore its not the fastest to convert to off ryukyus most explosive openings.

Keep in mind heathen AE penalty governs a lot of your expansion opportunities. And Confucian is not in a prime religious group for this.

It's interesting idea though, maybe you only harmonize islam + later Christian. That sets you for 70% of the nonTC world, and the rest is scattered in TC regions you don't need to worry about anyways.

If Confucian could DV harmonized religions itd be a lot more attractive.