I'm confused with Duchies and the limitations

I'm confused with Duchies and the limitations

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pdstanbridge

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So I'm very new to this, and am having to learn how to walk before I can run. I'm playing as Alba and have managed to conquer land down to Northumbria. I've got 6/6 domains, and am a tribal government. Now the suggestions box tells me I can create the duchy of Lothian, but this takes me over my limit. So what do I do?
 

x4077

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The domain limit refers to how many counties you may personally own without penalty. Duchies, Kingdoms, and Empires are titles that encompass groups of land, and are not considered landed titles by themselves. They do not directly count against how much land you may own.
 
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pdstanbridge

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Thanks. I just want to play efficiently. So I've got 6/6 domains. It says I can create another duchy, (I partly own Northumbria) but that takes me over my limit apparently.

alba1.jpg
 

Haze88

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Thanks. I just want to play efficiently. So I've got 6/6 domains. It says I can create another duchy, (I partly own Northumbria) but that takes me over my limit apparently.

View attachment 669955
Only Counties count towards domain counts, Duchy titles and higher help with things like taxes and unlock certain building effects and prevents "Not Rightful Liege" opinion malus. Are you referring to your Duchy limit? Because that's a separate unrelated issue entirely
 
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Jia Xu

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The suggestion box informs you of your options but you definitely don't need to act on every suggestion. Indeed, creating a duchy that you don't want or need is a gross waste of gold
 

Blackwhitecavias

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So you are already a king owning a duchy (going to assume Lothian, but might be a different one).

Creating a new duchy would give you some prestige at the cost of money. It would also allow you to build a duchy building in the capital of the duchy. I believe that are the main advantages.

There are also some disadvantages: If you already own 2 duchies (I don't expect you do, but you might) taking another one will put you over the limit and apply a -15 opinion penalty towards all your vassals (so then you probably shouldn't create it). If you have any other vassals in the area they might also start desiring the duchy applying a penalty (not the case if you own all the land in the duchy).

You should probably also start thinking about succession after your ruler's dead. I believe that under confederate partition all your held titles are divided among your children (titles you granted to your children before your dead also count for the amount they receive) and then new titles are created if you own enough land to create a new title of your own rank (not the case as you only own enough land to form the kingdom of Alba/Scotland) (I might be wrong and it might also create duchies you own enough land for on your death, but I don't think it does). In that situation it might not be a good idea to form the duchy if you have multiple children as the entire duchy would go to your second son (as your first one already gets Lothian) while if you don't create the duchy he might only get a few counties.
 
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Battlex

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So I'm very new to this, and am having to learn how to walk before I can run. I'm playing as Alba and have managed to conquer land down to Northumbria. I've got 6/6 domains, and am a tribal government. Now the suggestions box tells me I can create the duchy of Lothian, but this takes me over my limit. So what do I do?
Having more than 2 duchies gives an opinion malus with vassals, but you can easily balance this with 3 or 4 duchies.
 

Delta5ff

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where is it saying you are over your limit, can you provide a screenshot so we know exactly what problem you are having?

As has been said if you hold to many duchy titles it will give a negative opinion modifier to your vassals, and the number you can hold depends on your rank (2 for kings and emperors and 3 for dukes), it may be a waste of gold to create additional duchies but there are some reasons to create more titles. If you need prestige o wage war each title you create gives you a flat amount and you can then give those titles to your counts or dukes, preferably counts to make nice loyal vassals that like you.

Just be aware that it you hand out a title the same rank as your primary title that vassal will go independent, but as a king when you are large enough you will need to start making dukes eventually.
 

Tuo

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Only Counties count towards domain counts, Duchy titles and higher help with things like taxes and unlock certain building effects and prevents "Not Rightful Liege" opinion malus. Are you referring to your Duchy limit? Because that's a separate unrelated issue entirely
Slightly inaccurate - domain limit includes holdings, not counties specifically - but every county has a capital holding tied to the ownership of the county title, and you can't hold holdings in counties you don't hold. Regardless, as a tribal ruler, this distinction is not very important, as you likely won't have any secondary holdings in your counties that you could hold.
 
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pdstanbridge

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Okay, many thanks for the replies.

This is my realm so far.

alba2.jpg



I am at the limit of my holdings. 6/6. My capital is Gowrie. I have spent some gold improving the area with basic upgrades like markets. Gold is generally not a problem for this king.

alba3.jpg



Duchies. I can create two more according to the suggestion box. But that puts me over my limit? What benefits would that give me?

alba4.jpg



My king. I've only got one daughter!

alba5.jpg


So, to be as efficient as possible, help me organise my realm. What should I do? I'm strong militarily, so I can keep conquering. How do I allocate titles? Helping me here will help me learn.
 

iniudan

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Having more than 2 duchies gives an opinion malus with vassals, but you can easily balance this with 3 or 4 duchies.

Unless you stay a duke, then you can have an infinity of them, but you need to first leave confederate partition or stay vassal to a king for that, if you intend to hold vast territory.
 

Battlex

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Okay, many thanks for the replies.

This is my realm so far.

View attachment 670030


I am at the limit of my holdings. 6/6. My capital is Gowrie. I have spent some gold improving the area with basic upgrades like markets. Gold is generally not a problem for this king.

View attachment 670031


Duchies. I can create two more according to the suggestion box. But that puts me over my limit? What benefits would that give me?

View attachment 670032


My king. I've only got one daughter!

View attachment 670035

So, to be as efficient as possible, help me organise my realm. What should I do? I'm strong militarily, so I can keep conquering. How do I allocate titles? Helping me here will help me learn.
Creating duchies would give you prestige, which is the economy of tribals
Holding duchies is also how you get around 'not rightful liege' penalty counts have on Kings and emperors.
Creating duchies and granting then to vassals also allows you to reduce the total number of vassals you have, so you need to please less in order to avoid factions. Swarms of counts will also have more knights but possibly less MaAs than dukes
 

Blackwhitecavias

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I'd say it probably isn't worth it to create duchies: you already have one and getting more would allow them to be divided on this succession or the next. You also appear to own both Lothian and Circinn, so creating more without giving them away would give you the penalty for holding too many duchies (you could create one to grant it to a vassal, but if your own demesne is in the area of the duchy you shouldn't do that and you probably won't have an issue with the vassal limit for a while).
I'm not sure what would happen to your realm if you were to die now (I assume it would be divided among the children of your siblings (I'm assuming that your current player heir is your nephew as he holds the same title your oldest brother held before he died)), and it might be a good idea to look at the succession tab of the realm menu (crown icon on the right) in order to sea who gets what: if everything is going to your primary heir that's good.
Your current organisation looks good and probably can't really be improved, but here are some tips for the future (after expanding):
-When gaining titles trough war you should look at the succession tab to who are getting a share of your titles and then distribute new titles among the people that stand to inherit but aren't your primary heir. This will mean that the share your primary heir gets after your dead becomes bigger (pay attention that you need to give people who stand to inherit a duchy another duchy to compensate).
-When you have no secondary heirs you can either give the title to your primary heir in order to get him some lifestyle experience (this does however have disadvantages as he might then marry someone you don't want him to (for the first 10 years you can still decide who he marries, but after that he is free to choose) or might make some bad decisions.
-Another option would be to give new titles to characters who could make for valuable councilors, commanders or knights. You can find these characters by searching (one of the options if you click the 3 dots on the bottom of the screen) for characters within your realm with the filter that they are not rulers (you should however probably check that they don't already stand to inherit other titles as you don't want to create mega vassals.
 

kviiri

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Unless you stay a duke, then you can have an infinity of them, but you need to first leave confederate partition or stay vassal to a king for that, if you intend to hold vast territory.

Not exactly, in practice. Unless you're a king or above, you'll suffer a penalty for extending above 30 counties, including those of your vassals.
 
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Not exactly, in practice. Unless you're a king or above, you'll suffer a penalty for extending above 30 counties, including those of your vassals.
Isn't that just vassal limit
 
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Unless you stay a duke, then you can have an infinity of them, but you need to first leave confederate partition or stay vassal to a king for that, if you intend to hold vast territory.
Not exactly, in practice. Unless you're a king or above, you'll suffer a penalty for extending above 30 counties, including those of your vassals.
According to the screenshot he's already a king. :)




Isn't that just vassal limit
No, there's a separate penalty for going over 30 counties in your realm if you are below king-tier. It's -5% or -10% (can't remember which) for each county above the limit. This is in addition to the vassal limit - you can exceed both at once, in which case you get penalties for both.
 
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I'd say it probably isn't worth it to create duchies: you already have one and getting more would allow them to be divided on this succession or the next. You also appear to own both Lothian and Circinn, so creating more without giving them away would give you the penalty for holding too many duchies (you could create one to grant it to a vassal, but if your own demesne is in the area of the duchy you shouldn't do that and you probably won't have an issue with the vassal limit for a while).
The opinion malus is easily dealt with making 3 or 4 duchies sustainable, he's tribal so confederate partition succession will spread duchies out either way
 

pdstanbridge

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So.. thankyou again firstly. It is quite complex - I'm happier in EUIV in that respect :)

Okay, I think another duchy either Northumbria or Ireland, would benefit me and take the hit. I am having quite a lot of trouble with discontent. Because I'm on that 4th tribal government tier thing too, my vassals have a nasty negative modifier against me. So maybe the duchies would be a better option?

I've just had a son born too, so do I give him titles etc?
 

iniudan

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Not exactly, in practice. Unless you're a king or above, you'll suffer a penalty for extending above 30 counties, including those of your vassals.

Oh yes, I had forgotten that one, only started to play again last week and the way I play only got that warning once before.
 

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So.. thankyou again firstly. It is quite complex - I'm happier in EUIV in that respect :)

Okay, I think another duchy either Northumbria or Ireland, would benefit me and take the hit. I am having quite a lot of trouble with discontent. Because I'm on that 4th tribal government tier thing too, my vassals have a nasty negative modifier against me. So maybe the duchies would be a better option?

I've just had a son born too, so do I give him titles etc?
You could give him titles, but I'd reccomend against it until he's 5, and then try to just give him counties to start with
If you're 4th tribal tier you should be able to become feudal soon due to being Christian