If we don't get an Italy rework in Barbarossa I'm gonna be mad

[Harin]

Italy have the worst tree in the game, it's worse than the default tree. It's just lazy that they won't do Italy and USSR. Do you actually think that the AI will be able to use the new supply system correctly? They can't even move troops out of an area that is over crowded.

The developers told us not to long ago that focus trees are one of the hardest things they do. It is easy to imagine that by updating the USSR focus tree many other nations' focus trees will have to be reviewed and tweaked so that they do not contradict each other. At the very least they will need to look at every country with a communist path and those countries it fought with, like Germany, etc... It is a lot to take on, while at the same time tackle land combat AND logistics. Has there been any DLC that tried to tackle such large parts of the game before?

 

[Secret Master]

The Soviet Union and Italy have gone for so many years without getting a rework and I don't understand how Mexico and Turkey got a focus tree before USSR and Italy, 2 MAJORS. It's actually disgusting.

:Checks the original version of the game:

Didn't the Soviets and Italy have their own NF trees at release? Mexico and Turkey had the generic tree at release.

Why would you claim that Mexico and Turkey got a tree before Italy and Soviets? It's simply not true in any meaningful sense of that term.

 

[Bolshevik-]

I don't care about "MUH THEMES". The Soviet Union and Italy have gone for so many years without getting a rework and I don't understand how Mexico and Turkey got a focus tree before USSR and Italy, 2 MAJORS. It's actually disgusting.

I mean I'v seen multiplayer games where Turkey has had a larger eco than Italy by 1939 in HoI IV. But aside from that, if you think about Italy during WWII, one could argue it was hardily a major given its lacking performance. Paradox wants to drag out the focus trees for majors to milk the maximum money out of them. After all, money comes first for them.

 

[safe-keeper]

The developers told us not to long ago that focus trees are one of the hardest things they do. It is easy to imagine that by updating the USSR focus tree many other nations' focus trees will have to be reviewed and tweaked so that they do not contradict each other. At the very least they will need to look at every country with a communist path and those countries it fought with, like Germany, etc... It is a lot to take on, while at the same time tackle land combat AND logistics. Has there been any DLC that tried to tackle such large parts of the game before?

Yeah, we've known for a long time from dev posts that the USSR DLC is a massive beast, which is why they haven't tackled it before now. Tacking Italy (and by consequences the Mediterranean) onto that would make for a pretty gargantuan DLC. Not very feasible.

:Checks the original version of the game:

Didn't the Soviets and Italy have their own NF trees at release? Mexico and Turkey had the generic tree at release.

Why would you claim that Mexico and Turkey got a tree before Italy and Soviets? It's simply not true in any meaningful sense of that term.

Also, majors do tend to get to be the "main characters" of their DLCs.

Had Italy been tacked on to, say, Man the Guns, you'd have seen about as much complaining. "Italy is a major, how dare you throw it in alongside Mexico and Turkey without new Italy or Medterranean-related features!"

 

[Xinamon]

:Checks the original version of the game:

Didn't the Soviets and Italy have their own NF trees at release? Mexico and Turkey had the generic tree at release.

Why would you claim that Mexico and Turkey got a tree before Italy and Soviets? It's simply not true in any meaningful sense of that term.

All majors had their own focus tree at the beginning. USSR and Italy, soon only Italy, are the only majors that haven't gotten an updated focus tree.

 

[Harin]

Paradox wants to drag out the focus trees for majors to milk the maximum money out of them. After all, money comes first for them.

Well, to be fair, money comes first to the employees. That urgency makes it a priority for the employer. If the employees, landlord, and tax collector could only wait a few months for those paychecks, then the company would not have to generate profit every week to pay them.

 

[kimidf]

The implementation of Germany in WTT had some logic since the Germans interrelated with both the Japanese and the Chinese nationalists of Koumintang, we remember that these close ties with the Germans both at the advisory level and at the armament level, something that does not happen with the Italians on the eastern front and We remember that Poland is also considered a major by developers and they have more than once wanted to rewrite their tree and it makes every sense in the world that it could possibly come in this dlc unlike Italy

 

[Vlad3fr]

I mean I'v seen multiplayer games where Turkey has had a larger eco than Italy by 1939 in HoI IV. But aside from that, if you think about Italy during WWII, one could argue it was hardily a major given its lacking performance. Paradox wants to drag out the focus trees for majors to milk the maximum money out of them. After all, money comes first for them.

Because Italy lose to Greece and in Egypt (after the Torch Op), you don't gave them a tree ?

Turkey didn't even participate until Feb 45. So why would Turkey be stronger than Itlay ?

 

[Corpse Fool]

Had Italy been tacked on to, say, Man the Guns

I'd have been fine with Mexico and Netherlands not getting a tree, but Italy getting one. Same with Portugal, though Spain kinda needed something.

 

[Harin]

All majors had their own focus tree at the beginning. USSR and Italy, soon only Italy, are the only majors that haven't gotten an updated focus tree.

You are correct. Unfortunately, there was always going to be a major who would be updated last. Now we know it is going to be Italy.

 

[Xinamon]

You are correct. Unfortunately, there was always going to be a major who would be updated last. Now we know it is going to be Italy.

Yeah and it sucks that they didn't prioritise majors before minors.

 

[bitmode]

All majors had their own focus tree at the beginning. USSR and Italy, soon only Italy, are the only majors that haven't gotten an updated focus tree.

... and? You are not entitled to an updated focus tree. It may happen at some point but being mad and calling PDS lazy over that is just childish.

 

[pro.gamer.69]

All I can say to that is I would certainly like to see a competitor to Paradox in the 4x genre. Their pricing model is not something that distinguishes Paradox in a good way.

it's hard to think of many games without IAPs which don't rely on some sort of DLC model to fund their upgrades. i prefer a $40 imperfect game which receives continual upgrades (by the time I bought, when WtT came out, the base game was so good I was able to get 500 hours out of it - definitely worth the price) to an more polished $100 game which receives little further development, and more importantly the markets clearly do too, as even without a serious competitor, if the prices were "unfair" the games would not be bought. additionally, the sales policy is quite liberal, and so long as you're willing to wait 6 months after DLC come out to buy them, and buy the game on sale, you could easily have the full game for something like $50-60.

i disagree plenty with what PDX prioritizes and the speed at which content is produced (though I have no idea if the latter is "fair" or not), but I still find the DLC enjoyable enough to be worth the price.

 

[Warhawg01]

mexico is in MTG because its a neighbor of USA and someone really wanted to make mexico

I read another comment somewhere about how there is quite a push from within the company for more South American focus trees. (Yawn)

Does anyone else find this odd, considering the ongoing motivations about NF choices? Some say it’s all just money, or thematic consistency, but it seems PDX just does what it wants, consumer be-damned. I bet if a PDX employee banged the table loud enough for a Siam NF tree, it would happen before Italy.

Its their game, their vision, they can do what they want, but it would appear that a extremely basic level of market research should drive some level of DLC direction.

 

[Secret Master]

I will say this about any Italy focus tree:

Because the game's mechanics do not allow for things like countries switching sides, I can see why they wouldn't include a new tree for Italy until there is some kind of mechanical addition for countries swapping out of a faction and changing sides.

Let me also make it clear that I I think mechanics that do something like that well would be worthy of their own DLC. It's not just Italy, but Romania and Hungary would also benefit.

 

[pro.gamer.69]

I will say this about any Italy focus tree:

Because the game's mechanics do not allow for things like countries switching sides, I can see why they wouldn't include a new tree for Italy until there is some kind of mechanical addition for countries swapping out of a faction and changing sides.

Let me also make it clear that I I think mechanics that do something like that well would be worthy of their own DLC. It's not just Italy, but Romania and Hungary would also benefit.

that's not entirely true - the framework for countries to have civil wars, and for one to join a faction, does exist.

 

[Warhawg01]

This is an excellent point. I was thinking of options for a new Italian Focus Tree and the this switching to the Allies is critical to the Historical path. And all that would entail...Germany rescuing Mussolini... his rump state, etc.

Edit (Added): IF Allies occupy XXX province(s), Decision / NF unlock —> switch faction. That would be so great.

 

[xtfoster]

I don't care about "MUH THEMES". The Soviet Union and Italy have gone for so many years without getting a rework and I don't understand how Mexico and Turkey got a focus tree before USSR and Italy, 2 MAJORS. It's actually disgusting.

1) They have already said no Italy Tree, so be mad.
2) Both the USSR and Italy had a tree WELL before Mexico and Turkey since they had one from start. What you are wanting it a new/reworked tree for them.
3) Italy (arguably) had the best release day tree so it makes sense for them to be last to get a new one.

 

[Secret Master]

that's not entirely true - the framework for countries to have civil wars, and for one to join a faction, does exist.

It's not really the same as what happened to Italy, Hungary, and Romania, though. Those were countries that tried to leave their factions, but Germany intervened to prevent it (to various degrees of success). You can try to overthrow Italy's government and start a civil war so that part of the country leaves the Axis and joins the Allies, but there's no structure for "We realize we're on the losing side, so let's have the king fire Mussolini, change sides so we don't get completely occupied and wiped out, and, oh by the way, Germany disarms half our army because we screwed it up, and now we are in an accidental civil war with half the country defended by German troops with Mussolini as a puppet."

 

[safe-keeper]

Yeah and it sucks that they didn't prioritise majors before minors.

Again: Italy had a focus tree at launch. Mexico and the Netherlands got focus trees in a late-ish DLC. That's prioritizing majors before minors.