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CK2 lied to me. I am thought video games could teach me things but boy was I wrong.
If releasing a vassals with a religion is WAD, it is wrong
- Thread starter windwalker14
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CK2 lied to me. I am thought video games could teach me things but boy was I wrong.
why is this a bad thing? there are already way too few reasons to ever release a vassal. (edit: I meant release a nation into a vassal)
Releasing them is extremely costly, as a vassal thy only pay you 10% of their tax instead of 100% of it. And you need to annex them eventually too which again is costly (8 dip per dev)
And really, you can just get religious ideas yourself and convert everyone yourself, its not hard. (costs no mana)
You were more likely to release them to make them core for you. and that was nerfed into the ground already by making annex cost 80% of the mana that coring it yourself does and not applicable to the 85% discount (50% from tech, 25% from idea, 10% from fabricate claim)
This is also realistic and historical, as many people gave examples. When mexico was formed its rulers were christians not followers of the inca religion, etc. making a vassal whom you assign lands to and have him focus on converting the heathens or building things up or whatever? sure, there is a reason why nations created vassal nations IRL and moreover this is literally CK2 in a nutshell
yes, before the patch. but that is not part of CS DLC. just part of the 1.12 patch which should frankly be reverted. (this is literally the entire point of the thread)
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I think it would be best to make the religion dependent on percentage developement of all cores. If you release a nation as a subject and your religion is the dominant faith or at least say 40% of the developement of ALL cores of the released nation it will follow your religion.
Say Tunis ate all of Morocco and you play Spain and conquer one province, convert it to catholicism and then release OPMorocco it should still be Sunni, since the majority by far of Morocco is still Sunni.
Say Tunis ate all of Morocco and you play Spain and conquer one province, convert it to catholicism and then release OPMorocco it should still be Sunni, since the majority by far of Morocco is still Sunni.
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I am kinda okay with the changes. I just wish I could enforce herecy to my religion. It is nonsense that I can't make my vassal convert to my religion just because the vassal is of another religious group but still much weaker than me.
If we want to prevent people from releasing religious idea vassal for conversion, we can make it so that a vassal has the same missionary strength as the overlord regardless of whatever ideas or modifiers the vassal has.
If we want to prevent people from releasing religious idea vassal for conversion, we can make it so that a vassal has the same missionary strength as the overlord regardless of whatever ideas or modifiers the vassal has.
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Which requires you to be playing a mod, because the post-colonial tags don't work that way any more. The USA appears when the first CN to successfully declare independence in the Thirteen Colonies region enacts the decision turning itself into the USA. (Likewise Brazil, Canada, etc.)
We're likely changing it to be based on majority religion of cores. Will count non owned cores too, meaning no releasing 3 development Catholic Persia and feeding it all its cores.
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From a standpoint of logic, how do you justify a kingdom not being able to install whatever ruling party it wants in a vassal state it is creating?
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If you want the realism argument, such a state would have no recognized claims on its cores, a million Shiite persians aren't gonna be dandy with any state that calls itself 'Persia' regardless of religion.
Ofc the realism argument is meaningless, what you should not be able to do is easily mass convert regions by selectively releasing opm vassals with lots of cores.
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I managed to make religious rebels of my religion spawn in my vassal's province. The rebels proceeded to occupy their only province and finally peaced out and nothing happened. Tried it 3 more times with the same result. My vassal, despite their province being Sunni and having Sunni rebels occupy them for years never switched religion.
A million peasants... certainly they can revolt. but those mechanics already exist
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Cores represent a rightful claim to the land. A fake-Persia created by some Catholic would have no such claim.
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But if all of Persia is no longer muslim, does it make any sense to release it as a muslim, and called Persia?
I mean, then make conversion have two tier, majority and minority, so only countries with no majorities can get your religion, but the current system... is meh
I mean, then make conversion have two tier, majority and minority, so only countries with no majorities can get your religion, but the current system... is meh
1. How does persia not have the cores anymore just because it was conquered and released with a puppet government?
2. It does have a core, you need to core before you create a vassal from it
3. You acquire lands without core on them all the time in this game, hence the entire create core mechanic! it causes some unrest until you can create cores which takes 36 months and some admin points.
4. rightful according to whom? the nation that conquered persia and is now making a new country out of its lands? peasants are welcome to revolt and neighbors are welcome to try and take it. (nationalism CB). Heck, give me AE for it but let me do it.
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Doesn't that answer your question already? If you converted all of Persia to Catholic and then released it, it would become Catholic.
This is the problem of arguing for selective realism without thinking on the big picture. Yes, releasing a vassal state should allow you to chose the religion of the government. But doing so to a OPM with many unowned cores will result in absurd situations such as that one (why would all the Shia Persians recognize that tiny Catholic "Persia"?). Similarly, it doesn't make sense a fort physically stops armies from matching even in nearby provinces. But without this, we had carpet sieging, which is much more absurd.
Anyway, I really liked the idea of the religion of the released nation being based on all the cores, even the non owned ones. Will this be applied to culture as well?
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Their recognition of it is irrelevant. you conquered it with your soldiers in a war with your armies. if they want it back they are free to go to war with you to take it.
Nationalism is CB, holy war is a CB.
Or if you are referring to the population you conquered rather than that of your neighbors, then that is literally what nationalism revolts represent
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Wiz, perhaps you could have some tags with fixed_religion = (...) , just like you've done with fixed capitals, no? That would solve issues with Papal States and the like...
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How about enforcing heathen vassal to my religion?
Edit:
I am actually okay with all these changes.
However,
Before patch 1.12, a vassal's religion was determined at the point of releasing/vassalizing it. There was no way to enforce my religion to my vassals before 1.12. This is bad in terms of both gameplay and realism.
Common Sense makes it possible to enforce religion, which is great, but why the hell is it restricted to heretics but not heathens?
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