If releasing a vassals with a religion is WAD, it is wrong

[TheMeInTeam]

This change hurts non-Abrahamic a lot more than Abrahamic.

At least the beta alteration of being able to release into your faith if a majority of target cores are your faith gives you some chance to not rely on humanist again as weaker conversion faiths. Persia still has Khorasan, Arabia has basically anybody (Haasa is a good bet, terrible development and not many cores + takes religious), India has Sind, Nepal, Tibet depending on where you are and what your faith is. SEA has nothing but Brunei never had anything previously. North Africa is still HCC hell, West Africa still has nothing.

If you play without the DLC beta making development go ridiculous everywhere most areas are pretty manageable now, though as usual life still sucks as animist despite having the +2% conversion power choice, because like with Sikh, subjects will not take it reliably. Animist with Roma and no DLC gouging development can still cover a lot of ground though...3 missionaries and 7% base strength is a big climb from 5% base strength in speed and now that cathedrals are ducats-only affairs you can handle the tougher provinces more readily.

 

[neaiskink]

make me pay in LD, unrest and whatnot for forcing a vassal to convert to an ahistorical religion.
but guve that option.

I cannot imagine myself, as a christian ruler, releasing a vassal under me and allowing it to be OFFICIALLY a heathen. Factually (in terms of converted provinces), yes, eventually (due to rebels, etc), also possibly.

However, as austria, to release orthodox princes in the HRE with all catholic provinces... makes no sense. No sense at all.

 

[atwix]

its a good example of how Dev team changes a mechanic to stop 'badwrongfun' of some players, only to annoy entire community due to side-effects of that aformentioned change..

I still think they introduced this change to stop the small margin of players who released dead nations who have religious national idea group and +missionary strength as national tradition. Nations like NAJD. They then converted the fed land to your religion. 'Badwrongfun'; must be stopped.

Result? Hard coded nation religions in a game that is supposed to offer players a chance to reshape the world map in an alternate historical reality. YET, that alternate historical reality is bound from the start by hard code. EEEH?

Let's assume hungary eats serbia. They convert all the provinces to catholicism in 1500. Then hungary gets smashed, and Serbia becomes independant due to rebels enforcing demand. Austria then full annexes Serbia in 1750, cores their capital, and releases them as a new Prince of the HRE.

An orthodox prince, even after Serbia has been catholic for 250 years.

....

 

[CNY10000]

its a good example of how Dev team changes a mechanic to stop 'badwrongfun' of some players, only to annoy entire community due to side-effects of that aformentioned change..

I still think they introduced this change to stop the small margin of players who released dead nations who have religious national idea group and +missionary strength as national tradition. Nations like NAJD. They then converted the fed land to your religion. 'Badwrongfun'; must be stopped.

Result? Hard coded nation religions in a game that is supposed to offer players a chance to reshape the world map in an alternate historical reality. YET, that alternate historical reality is bound from the start by hard code. EEEH?

Let's assume hungary eats serbia. They convert all the provinces to catholicism in 1500. Then hungary gets smashed, and Serbia becomes independant due to rebels enforcing demand. Austria then full annexes Serbia in 1750, cores their capital, and releases them as a new Prince of the HRE.

An orthodox prince, even after Serbia has been catholic for 250 years.

....

In 1.13, vassal religion is based on majority of cores, which works quite well.



The devs were recently providing many cures that are worse than the diseases to the game (Taking only corable provinces, Development, etc). Maybe it's because of the one-month-long vacation? Hopefully they can fix the Common Sense when they come back.

 

[taltamir]

Taking only corable provinces

that one is actually eminently sensible. Especially since you couldn't always tell at a glance whether it would be possible to core a province (due to how coring overseas works)

In 1.13, vassal religion is based on majority of cores, which works quite well.

Eh, it is better, but still makes no damn sense. Even if the lands are muslim, there is no damn reason for a christian nation to put muslim rulers back in power

 

[Frederick_Will]

that one is actually eminently sensible. Especially since you couldn't always tell at a glance whether it would be possible to core a province (due to how coring overseas works)


Eh, it is better, but still makes no damn sense. Even if the lands are muslim, there is no damn reason for a christian nation to put muslim rulers back in power

Yea, I agree. I don't see why you cant choose to have the leader of your choice. Do you want the more stable muslim ruler or a less "legitimate" ruler that is christian. They will of course have more rebel trouble, but you can spend time and resources assisting them in their conversions. The way vassals got their religion made more sense in 1.11 than 1.12, and imo better than 1.13. The offer a DLC that gives some more ways to interact with your vassal(even though some hurt vanilla play if you don't own the dlc compared to 1.11) but decide to omit one that makes sense for this. Giving the player more options with meaningful choices is a good thing.

 

[CNY10000]

that one is actually eminently sensible. Especially since you couldn't always tell at a glance whether it would be possible to core a province (due to how coring overseas works)

Sometimes I just want the provinces to release a vassal. I would prefer just banning players from giving allies uncorable provinces.

Eh, it is better, but still makes no damn sense. Even if the lands are muslim, there is no damn reason for a christian nation to put muslim rulers back in power

Yea, I agree. I don't see why you cant choose to have the leader of your choice. Do you want the more stable muslim ruler or a less "legitimate" ruler that is christian. They will of course have more rebel trouble, but you can spend time and resources assisting them in their conversions. The way vassals got their religion made more sense in 1.11 than 1.12, and imo better than 1.13. The offer a DLC that gives some more ways to interact with your vassal(even though some hurt vanilla play if you don't own the dlc compared to 1.11) but decide to omit one that makes sense for this. Giving the player more options with meaningful choices is a good thing.

Everyone knows the reality, but the devs are breaking the vassalization strategy just to prevent a small gamey trick in 1.12.

1.13 is better, but I still can't see what the devs are doing. By converting easy-to-convert provinces and leaving the hard-to-convert provinces to vassal, a player can still convert provinces that they are not supposed to convert in most cases. The cure is less toxic (still toxic though), but it barely cures the disease. 1.11 can use some improvement, but is better than 1.12 or 1.13.

If we really want to fix the "make vassal convert my provinces" strategy, there needs to be a better province converting mechanism.