If Life gave Hitler a second chance,what must he do for Germany to gain a favourable outcome in WW2?

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Kovax

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By 1939, Hitler had already plunged Germany into a do-or-die situation, because it couldn't continue spending money it didn't have, and it couldn't buy the essential food and raw materials to keep going even if it reduced the military expenditures drastically. In essence, it came down to either surrendering before an actual shooting war was even started, or else take someone else's stuff to stave off the inevitable. The die was cast somewhere between 1933 and 1936.

Hitler didn't make up the issues relating to several ethnic and religious differences; the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few specific groups was a fact, due in large part to prior Christian rules against usury and the poorly thought-out redrawing of the map of Europe after WWI. Other countries had similar problems, and dealt with them in various ways, mostly ones that don't cause a strong negative social backlash. What Hitler did was play it up as a sinister plot, stir people up with highly emotional speeches to a near-riot state of concern, and convert it into something we can't discuss. He also used other countries' failures in those regards as opportunities which he shamelessly exploited. Czechoslovakia in particular would not have folded willingly, or been handed over by France and the UK without a fight, if its own actions hadn't basically driven it to the brink of disintegration already. Hitler didn't cause the problem, but he managed to take advantage of it and turn it into an even bigger one.

I'm strongly reminded of Donald Trump's comments about Mexicans, building a wall and making Mexico pay for it, and other "ideas" to address a real and complex issue which a simplistic solution that probably won't fix anything, but may very well get somebody elected.
 
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yerm

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I'm strongly reminded of Donald Trump's comments about Mexicans, building a wall and making Mexico pay for it, and other "ideas" to address a real and complex issue which a simplistic solution that probably won't fix anything, but may very well get somebody elected.

The French were the ones who built a massive wall to protect against Germany while Germany was paying them reparations. Are you suggesting that France was the USA and Germany was Mexico? Cause I'm down with how this might be going.
 
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Kovax

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The French were the ones who built a massive wall to protect against Germany while Germany was paying them reparations. Are you suggesting that France was the USA and Germany was Mexico? Cause I'm down with how this might be going.
No, pointing out that Trump's playing up of one side of the story, and downplaying the other side, follows a lot of the same emotional finger-pointing that Hitler used to drum up support. Not that I'd compare Trump to Hitler otherwise. The illegal alien situation in the US, and the strong pro and con stances against something that is definitely mixed, is a parallel to the ethnic and religious situation in Europe to at least a limited degree. There is rarely a "right" and a "wrong" side, normally there are shades of gray on both, but a shrewd and talented enough speaker can make a radical extremist stance seem like a good idea. That and a bit of luck got Hitler elected.

The opposite approach, saying that everything is fine and there is no problem, then failing to take "reasonable" safeguards, leads to a lot of incidents with isolated criminals and other problem elements which quickly polarize the population against it. As said, Hitler didn't create the problems, but countries like France insisted on maintaining the status quo no matter what it caused. That inflexibility helped create the dire situation where a radical element like Hitler could take root.
 
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Jmland

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Depends on what assumptions you make, but "win" is a high standard, how about "not get pounded into the stone age".

1. Either don't make the Molotov-Ribbintrop pact or get Japan to sign on to a simultaneous attack on the Soviets. There would have to be a very big incentive for the Japanese, as Siberia is not as inviting as the resource rich islands to the south (and the beach weather is a bit better also).

2. If you can't do number 1 above, then don't attack the Soviets until at least 1943, when a much larger portion of the Wehrmacht is motorized (and maybe even prepare for harsh winters).

3. If you can't do that', then don't attack the Soviets. Fort up with a "Maginot Line" from the Baltic (or maybe including Finland) to the Black Sea.

4. If you can't do that, don't declare war on the US. The US government would have had a difficult time getting a DOW out of Congress without Hitler declaring on the US.

5. Cripple (at least try) the allied war effort by devoting more resources to the commerce raiding (U-Boot) campaign, including a lot of land based naval air units based in Vichy colonies all over the world.

6. Invest in a competent Leader of the Luftwaffe, get better fighters earlier, develop a good air defense network/system, and radar.

7. Keep the secret R&D and training relationship with the Soviets going (Hitler ended it in 1933). That would have given the Germans good insight into Soviet weapon systems.

8. Organize the economy on a war structure very early. Up until something like 1943, most German factories were only running one shift, shutting down for 2/3's of each production day, and prioritize resources and production capacity.

9. Invest heavily in coal to oil synthesis. Germany pioneered the technology in the WW1 and post WW1 era.

10. Have a plan when dealing with weapon systems. Don't produce "everything" just because. How many different armored vehicles (all types) did Germany have? More than 100 I think.

11. One thing Hitler never did was "wargame" any of his strategies. He would (maybe) have come to the conclusion that sometimes, the answer is "don't do it".

12. Don't waste resources on every super weapon that is proposed. If it can make a material difference relative to the resources allocated, then "maybe". If not, no.

-. Probably the most important thing, would be something that is impossible psychologically for the German regime; and I think the subject is forbidden in the forums, but my answer is "DON'T DO IT" (yes, THAT subject)
 
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Chepicoro

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Assuming German victory = controlling continental Europe with France and USSR defeated before summer 1945 and the american nuclear bombs.

- Better coordination with Italy and Japan.
- Better use of human resources.
- Try to destabilize the USSR with political goals, freedom from communism and nationalities.

About more specific paths.

a) The peripheral strategy after the battle of France, defeating Britain in the Mediterranean and Middle East and hoping for a new british government that sue for peace.

b) A more successful Barbarrosa or in the worst case scenario a successful Blau with the Caucasian oilfields in their control by summer 1942.

I can not see an option for victory after summer 1942, and I know a German victory was really unlikely from the beginning with or without Hitler, if some people though seriously the possibility of a german victory was because the really bad performance of the allies up to 1941.
 
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Stop after Czechoslovakia. (Same as Director)

I agree but that's the easy way out and peace is no fun :p


Anyways, the OP mentioned sept. 1st 1939 as the start date, meaning we have to start to theorize from that point onwards. This is how I would do it in general strokes:


1) Defeat Poland in 1939. Sign MR pact with USSR.

2) Defeat France and conquer western Europe in 1940.

3) Aftwerwards, play the diplomacy card very hard with the UK and remaining Allies to get some peace terms in exchange for a free hand in the east and neutrality. Perhaps some commercial agreements. Hand back recent conquests to their legal owners, with the exception of german cores. Make friendly gestures to the USA to get on their good side.

4) Prepare the army well for Russia and make sure negotations have taken place with Japan guaranteeing a declaration of war against the USSR at the same time as Germany. A two front massive land war will break apart the communist effort.

5) Now with peace with the Allies and with preparations ready, Barbarossa can be launched with the entire might of the Reich and the Axis, in eastern Europe and the Far East (Japan). Once USSR falls, its enough land for Germany. A new war against the West won't be neccessary as the eastern colonies in what was western Russia will be enough to build a german empire. Hitler retires to a great conqueror legacy.
 

Kipperian

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Defeat is almost certain. USSR was planning to attack Germany in Summer 1941.

Maybe if Hitler hasn't invaded France and UK+France had carried out "Operation Pike" against Baku Oilfields in May 1940 as planned the alliance networks would have changed significantly.
 

Sweed Raver

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Assuming the goals are: Danzig
If I were him, I would avoid declaring war on Poland (and subsequently starting WW2). I would instead try to get the area through diplomatic means:
  1. Assuming I have already annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia, I would try to trade the Slovak region for parts of West Prussia. To sweeten the deal I would guarantee a Polish port in Gdynia, and a railroad track to and from there.
  2. Assuming I have only annexed Austria and the Sudetenland, and promised Neville Chamberlain that I would not claim more territory, I would then begin negotiations with the Allied countries and Poland for a pact against the Soviet Union. I would tell them that I would join an Allied lead coalition against them if necessary, and the only thing I would ask for in return is Danzig (and possibly Czechoslovakia, but that's not really my goal) after we've won the war. Poland would have benefited from such a coalition, since the Commonwealth once ruled over parts of what was Soviet territory, and could thus use that as legitimate claims to the territory.

Assuming the goals are: Danzig, Elsaß

If I were him, I would probably try to convince the UK to a cease-fire as soon as I've got France under my control, by any means necessary. Once that is established, I would call for the establishment of an international diplomatic channel in order to make the cease-fire long lasting and deescalate the war. During this time, I would try to rebuild any destroyed industry and infrastructure, get the economy working in all controlled areas, and make sure that the people are well fed and that my support among the people grow. I would give the controlled areas of France, Belgium and The Netherlands more autonomy if necessary in order to reach that goal. Eventually, this might just lead to a peace treaty, with me coming out better than I began with.
 
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Chepicoro

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Defeat is almost certain. USSR was planning to attack Germany in Summer 1941.

Maybe if Hitler hasn't invaded France and UK+France had carried out "Operation Pike" against Baku Oilfields in May 1940 as planned the alliance networks would have changed significantly.

Planning an attack is different to attack, we do not know the soviet intentions, and likely they were not ready.
 
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Gratch11

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1/ Forget BB, instead send Lufwaffe and 5 pz div to med/africa and take Malta and Suez, in 1940 the UK actually thought of leaving Malta without a fight.
2/ Not declare war on US
3/ Invad Vichy France in Africa, that way he could close the med without taking Gibraltar
4/ Start making subs as fast as possible, before the UK gets the hang of the sub war
5/ After making the med a lake invade Iraq/Iran for the oil
6/ This would make puppets out of the Balkans and Turkey, if not before. and without invasion
7/ Dont mess with the plane production, let them have one mission. ie the Me 262 doesnt have to carry bombs, the new bombers doesnt have to be able to DB etc
8/ Stop being a lunatic Nazi, get the conquered nations/people to like you and use them instead of k¤#¤#ing them. That goes for all nationalities and other traits...

This would defeat UK without invasion. All this could be done by 1941. Between june 40 and april 41 the wehrmacht did nothing, USE IT!! But not to much in africa, they have to be supplied, but the UK had minimal forces in Egypt in july 40
 

Sir Garnet

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From records and interviews since the fall of the USSR a great deal more is now known or inferred about the Soviet side. We in the west have inferred, and now we do know, that the Soviets were not nearly as ready for war as Stalin thought they were, that more time was desired to strengthen the military, and that Stalin was one for awaiting opportunities. The theme of a German attack and in response a swift and crushing Soviet counterattack and total victory in response was rife in propaganda and popular expectations. When the war in the west started, the prospect of a war of mutual exhaustion on the western front was greeted by Stalin as offering ample opportunities to pursue in good time. Stalin prepared and gained political power by biding his time and working hard to strengthen his position and undermine opponents.

When Germany's enemies rapidly collapsed under attack, Stalin's confidence was shaken, but not his expansive ambitions. Preparation for war continued.

Like Hitler, Stalin did not understand critical essentials of operational art (particularly when defending), but was more willing to listen to his favored generals and let the soldiers do their work. Stalin would freely take credit for successes, but it does not appear that he suffered from delusions of military genius.
 
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MGL 86

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I'm strongly reminded of Donald Trump's comments about Mexicans, building a wall and making Mexico pay for it, and other "ideas" to address a real and complex issue which a simplistic solution that probably won't fix anything, but may very well get somebody elected.
Come to think of it, you can see SS soldiers in one of Trump election ad. :)

But of course he is not Hitler and he is not capable of Hitler level villainy. He is just saying things that masses want to hear.
 
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semaphore

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Hitler should have continued Gustav Stresemann's old foreign policy and not overly antagonise the Western Allies so much. He apparently gravely overestimated Allied tolerance for his antics.

Specifically, he shouldn't have broken the Munich Agreement. Had he left the rest of Czechoslovakia alone, the West would've been placated while he pursue the return of former German territories from Poland and Lithuania. Western public opinion were largely favourable to uniting the Germans with Germany until he showed his true colours by conquering the decidedly non-German Czech heartlands. Had he not shown his true bellicose colours that way, Poland could not have hoped to resist Germany without Western support.

Once he revised Germany's eastern boundaries, Hitler could've retired and gone down in history as the architect of Germany's great restoration, all without having burn those ridiculous amounts of cash on rearming. Alternatively, given Germany's dominant position in Eastern Europe, and he could've built a coalition to fight his great ideological enemy, the Soviet Union, with either the support or at least non intervention of capitalist West.
 
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hyeondrugs

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Its quite simple, he shouldn't have gotten high on drugs. Go look up "High Hitler" on youtube. He had Parkinson's disease and took a number of drugs like cocaine. These played the biggest role for the heavy defeat that was D-Day especially. How a bunch of people don't know this is beyond me. Otherwise the Nazis didn't use the local population's hatred towards Soviet Union to their advantage. They genocided, imprisoned and enslaved people who would've made easy allies like the Ukrainians. They should've kept attacking the British airfields during the Blitz but instead they switched to cities which allowed the British airforce to recuperate. Should've seized the Suez Canal, and made strong allies in the Middle East to get more oil. Should've gotten Spain into the alliance. Otherwise they should've focused on Leningrad and Moscow and prepared for the winter.
On another note I disagree with plans for establishing a "Commonwealth" from Poland. The Lithuanians hated the poles, they occupied Vilnius and the poles tried to coup d'etat not long before the war to force their annexation. I don't think any Russians/Belorussians would be content either.
 
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Azulus

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Its quite simple, he shouldn't have gotten high on drugs. Go look up "High Hitler" on youtube. He had Parkinson's disease and took a number of drugs like cocaine.... How a bunch of people don't know this is beyond me.
A lot of peopel know it. During ww2 drugabuse was not uncommon at the german army. Pervetin, a drug based on methamphetamin (now used in Crystal meth) could be bought at 1938 free at every Drugstore. The german Army gave it for free at there Soldiers, It was know as "Wunderpille" or "Panzerschokolade". Pervitin suppressing fatigue, hunger and pain. It gives momentarily self-confidence, a sense of strength and an unusual Speed. The consequences first wasn´t regular known and i guess at the start of the war they didn´t care. After the longterm consequnces where known at 1941 you couldn´t get it free anymore but needed a prescription. It was known that Hitler (and a lot of other peopel) were addictet to pervitin.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-a-crystal-meth-addict-says-new-documentary/
Erwin Rommel is said to have consumed Pervitin as if it was his “daily bread”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...rystal-meth-style-drug-pervitin-10499087.html
 
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Defeat is almost certain. USSR was planning to attack Germany in Summer 1941.

Maybe if Hitler hasn't invaded France and UK+France had carried out "Operation Pike" against Baku Oilfields in May 1940 as planned the alliance networks would have changed significantly.

There is no realy evidence (despite what some Nazi apologists would claim) that the Soviets were planning to attack in '41. On the contrary, the deployment of the Soviet army was completely unsuited to an offensive posture (not that it was particularly well suited to a defensive posture either, in fact all it was suited towards was showing off - which was probably intentional).

That's not to say Stalin never intended to attack Germany, but that such an attack would likely not occur until a couple of years later.

Assuming the goals are: Danzig
If I were him, I would avoid declaring war on Poland (and subsequently starting WW2). I would instead try to get the area through diplomatic means:
  1. Assuming I have already annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia, I would try to trade the Slovak region for parts of West Prussia. To sweeten the deal I would guarantee a Polish port in Gdynia, and a railroad track to and from there.
  2. Assuming I have only annexed Austria and the Sudetenland, and promised Neville Chamberlain that I would not claim more territory, I would then begin negotiations with the Allied countries and Poland for a pact against the Soviet Union. I would tell them that I would join an Allied lead coalition against them if necessary, and the only thing I would ask for in return is Danzig (and possibly Czechoslovakia, but that's not really my goal) after we've won the war. Poland would have benefited from such a coalition, since the Commonwealth once ruled over parts of what was Soviet territory, and could thus use that as legitimate claims to the territory.

Assuming the goals are: Danzig, Elsaß

If I were him, I would probably try to convince the UK to a cease-fire as soon as I've got France under my control, by any means necessary. Once that is established, I would call for the establishment of an international diplomatic channel in order to make the cease-fire long lasting and deescalate the war. During this time, I would try to rebuild any destroyed industry and infrastructure, get the economy working in all controlled areas, and make sure that the people are well fed and that my support among the people grow. I would give the controlled areas of France, Belgium and The Netherlands more autonomy if necessary in order to reach that goal. Eventually, this might just lead to a peace treaty, with me coming out better than I began with.

Thing is, his ultimate goal wasn't just Danzig and Elsass. His ultimate goal, as laid out in the so-called Second Book, were to build Germany into a power capable of competing with the US. His belief (and not an unreasonable one - the whole "Jewish conspiracy" side of his beliefs was obvious nuts, but the basic idea of American dominance wasn't) was that none of the old European states could compete with the rising power of America (only Britain with it's Empire had a chance, and even that was already being eclipsed), and would eventually fall under its domination (whether military or economic). As a fervent German nationalist, this was unacceptable to him, so Germany had to acquire the land and resources to compete. Simply retaking the land of the 2nd Reich wouldn't be enough. Lebensraum was the only way.

Hitler should have continued Gustav Stresemann's old foreign policy and not overly antagonise the Western Allies so much. He apparently gravely overestimated Allied tolerance for his antics.

Specifically, he shouldn't have broken the Munich Agreement. Had he left the rest of Czechoslovakia alone, the West would've been placated while he pursue the return of former German territories from Poland and Lithuania. Western public opinion were largely favourable to uniting the Germans with Germany until he showed his true colours by conquering the decidedly non-German Czech heartlands. Had he not shown his true bellicose colours that way, Poland could not have hoped to resist Germany without Western support.

Once he revised Germany's eastern boundaries, Hitler could've retired and gone down in history as the architect of Germany's great restoration, all without having burn those ridiculous amounts of cash on rearming. Alternatively, given Germany's dominant position in Eastern Europe, and he could've built a coalition to fight his great ideological enemy, the Soviet Union, with either the support or at least non intervention of capitalist West.

While Hitler would certainly have liked to keep the Western Allies placated, he quite reasonably realised that it wasn't possible if he wanted to achieve his goals of building a "Greater Germany". A Germany with restored borders wasn't enough for him, and to expand as much as he believed neccesary would inevitably bring him into conflict with Britain and France. Not to mention the fact that Germany even by '38 needed war. It's economy was committed to war. It needed the resources and funds that conquest would bring to sustain itself.

Its quite simple, he shouldn't have gotten high on drugs. Go look up "High Hitler" on youtube. He had Parkinson's disease and took a number of drugs like cocaine. These played the biggest role for the heavy defeat that was D-Day especially. How a bunch of people don't know this is beyond me. Otherwise the Nazis didn't use the local population's hatred towards Soviet Union to their advantage. They genocided, imprisoned and enslaved people who would've made easy allies like the Ukrainians. They should've kept attacking the British airfields during the Blitz but instead they switched to cities which allowed the British airforce to recuperate. Should've seized the Suez Canal, and made strong allies in the Middle East to get more oil. Should've gotten Spain into the alliance. Otherwise they should've focused on Leningrad and Moscow and prepared for the winter.
On another note I disagree with plans for establishing a "Commonwealth" from Poland. The Lithuanians hated the poles, they occupied Vilnius and the poles tried to coup d'etat not long before the war to force their annexation. I don't think any Russians/Belorussians would be content either.

Hitler being off his head by D-Day makes very little difference. The war was lost long before then. Your other suggestions might've help Germany somewhat, but they aren't going to be enough to save Germany, given what they were facing. Even winning the Battle of Britain wouldn't have gotten close to beating the UK. Being nicer to Ukranians isn't going to do much about the fact that the Soviets had vastly larger armies than the Germans were capable of beating. Taking Moscow and/or Lenningrad, particularly the former, in '41 might've achieved something, but they had no real chance of doing it.


Fundamentally, Germany lost the war the day Hitler secured his power. His ultimate goals would inevitably bring Germany into conflict with forces that it couldn't defeat, and even well before the war broke out, he had committed Germany onto a path that would lead to such a conflict. For Hitler to "win" he would have to not be Hitler.
 
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Step 1: Drop the Anti-Semitism around 1918, focus on unity of the German people. This way there wont be an exodus of the scientists/engineers
Step 2: Stop after Sudetenland and wait for the rest of Europe to fall into German orbit due to anti-Soviet fear (70k tanks will freak out a lot of countries)
Step 3: Back the Chinese with whatever is necessary to get them as Allies for the next 100 years (profit from reconstruction, free trade and a usefull ally once it's build up)
Step 4: Get the largest merchant marine in the world, just in case
Step 5: Nuclear ICBMs in 1950 to freeze the new political order forever
 
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Step 2: Stop after Sudetenland and wait for the rest of Europe to fall into German orbit due to anti-Soviet fear (70k tanks will freak out a lot of countries)
Step 3: Back the Chinese with whatever is necessary to get them as Allies for the next 100 years (profit from reconstruction, free trade and a usefull ally once it's build up)
Step 4: Get the largest merchant marine in the world, just in case
Problem with these two and what he did in reality, was that he thought allying Italy and Japan would forever solve #4. But in doing so, he prevents:
  1. The possibility of diplomatic negotiations with France over a possible coalition against the Soviet Union, since Italy and France have both border and colony disputes, and they would rather fight over those strips of land than a greater threat (it's all about pride isn't it?), until it's far too late. Unless France and Italy both start focusing on realpolitik then we're forever at a standstill.
  2. The possibility of allying the Chinese, since they want to once more unite with the Chinese peoples of Manchuria, and the latter is under Japanese control.
Do you have any more favorable solution to how to achieve #4 without hindering #2 and #3?