If I read "Pagan DLC" one more time...
- Thread starter Sam L
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Pagan DLC
Playing pagans is one of the easiest mods, not even a mod, just a few character on one line in a define file.
The DLC should be only about playable pagans... They shall became features too
I would like both. Pagans or Republics (But only if the republics are dynastic! That was how mediaevel republics work).
In CK1 I had a blast playing Baltic pagans (no mods). I simply was choosing some Christian count, surrendering to Pagan, becoming vassal and converting to Pagan. It was very cool to fight against evil Christians.
However, As TheLionHeart points out now with new Crusade or Holly Wars rules Christians simply overwhelm Baltic Pagans in no time. In 5 my games Lithuania becomes Denmark de jure every single time.
I want to point out that there was significant difference between Christian-Muslim and Christian-Pagan relationships.
Pagan and Christian dynasties were marrying each other. Even Pagans becoming kings of Christian kingdoms. Making alliances and etc. Pagan were also significantly tolerant to Christians in conquered territories. They had no objective to spread Paganism which was completely different from Muslim expansion.
However, As TheLionHeart points out now with new Crusade or Holly Wars rules Christians simply overwhelm Baltic Pagans in no time. In 5 my games Lithuania becomes Denmark de jure every single time.
I want to point out that there was significant difference between Christian-Muslim and Christian-Pagan relationships.
Pagan and Christian dynasties were marrying each other. Even Pagans becoming kings of Christian kingdoms. Making alliances and etc. Pagan were also significantly tolerant to Christians in conquered territories. They had no objective to spread Paganism which was completely different from Muslim expansion.
It has to be a 'Cows with Guns' invasion DLC, supported of course by chickens in choppers
Hopefully it won't. Playable Muslims came alongside a bunch of cool features for Muslims like decadence and polygamy. Hopefully when we get playable pagans we'll also get features to make the pagans deeper and more interesting. I'd especially like to see the different pagan religions differentiated from one another to a greater degree.
A general Papal dlc would be great!That's cause we need a college of cardinals DLC
This was the idea I had a few months ago, in this here thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?626701-My-idea-for-Pagans&highlight=
For those too lazy to click the link, the idea is basically that there should be a system that'll cause Christians (dunno about Muslims, probably not given their willingness to Holy War even each other) to not be able to jump straight to Holy Wars on Pagans. Instead, I thought that there should be a system in place where independent Pagan realms become an increasingly large blip on the radar of Christianity as they grow in strength, attack Christians, and resist the efforts of missionaries. So long as the realm is a smaller blip, the Christians will continue to resort to less war-like conversion approaches, and instead try to peacefully sway their neighboring heathen brothers to Christianity. If the Pagan realm, however, because too much trouble, then Christians will be able to declare your good ol' Holy Wars/Crusades to put an end to the growing heathen threat.
I think it'd create a more historically accurate depiction of the conversion of European pagans, and I think it'd make playing as a Pagan state much more enjoyable than their current state(indeed, I can't see their being much fun to being a Pagan if they leave the CB system the way it is, as it'll render some Pagans essentially unplayable thanks to the HRE and Russians). You'd have to walk a fine line between building power and not incurring the Wrath of Christ, and ultimately deciding whether to accept this new god as your own (and then try to push him on your likely unwilling vassals), or to hold onto the old ways and defy Christianity and history itself. Additionally, it seems like a more sophisticated, elegant idea to playable Pagans than "Give them more troops!" which is what most mods that make em' playable tend to offer as a solution.
I've brought it up a few times, and I know PI frequents these boards, so I really hope they at least took some inspiration from my idea. Cause, again, if they CB system between Christians and Pagans stay the same upon their release, its mostly going to be the same bloodbath, only now the player can experience the other side of it... and probably only continue playing if they play as gamey and aggressively as possible in many cases.
For those too lazy to click the link, the idea is basically that there should be a system that'll cause Christians (dunno about Muslims, probably not given their willingness to Holy War even each other) to not be able to jump straight to Holy Wars on Pagans. Instead, I thought that there should be a system in place where independent Pagan realms become an increasingly large blip on the radar of Christianity as they grow in strength, attack Christians, and resist the efforts of missionaries. So long as the realm is a smaller blip, the Christians will continue to resort to less war-like conversion approaches, and instead try to peacefully sway their neighboring heathen brothers to Christianity. If the Pagan realm, however, because too much trouble, then Christians will be able to declare your good ol' Holy Wars/Crusades to put an end to the growing heathen threat.
I think it'd create a more historically accurate depiction of the conversion of European pagans, and I think it'd make playing as a Pagan state much more enjoyable than their current state(indeed, I can't see their being much fun to being a Pagan if they leave the CB system the way it is, as it'll render some Pagans essentially unplayable thanks to the HRE and Russians). You'd have to walk a fine line between building power and not incurring the Wrath of Christ, and ultimately deciding whether to accept this new god as your own (and then try to push him on your likely unwilling vassals), or to hold onto the old ways and defy Christianity and history itself. Additionally, it seems like a more sophisticated, elegant idea to playable Pagans than "Give them more troops!" which is what most mods that make em' playable tend to offer as a solution.
I've brought it up a few times, and I know PI frequents these boards, so I really hope they at least took some inspiration from my idea. Cause, again, if they CB system between Christians and Pagans stay the same upon their release, its mostly going to be the same bloodbath, only now the player can experience the other side of it... and probably only continue playing if they play as gamey and aggressively as possible in many cases.
What I would like to see is more non-hostile interactions between Christians and Pagans. Historically many Pagan rulers invited Christian missionaries into their realms. Not only is there no mechanism to do this at present, there's no reason to do so.
I can agree with this. I would really like to see a non-hostile conversion system. Historically many rulers did end up peacefully converting to a "proper" religion, either for personal or political reasons, and forced their populations to do the same.
Republics is the next one IMO.
Originally I was gonna buy both Republics and Pagans, but if Republics get delayed for goddamn vikings, after we've had to suffer through Aztecs, I'll simply keep my 7 dollars.
Still getting Republics+Trade for certain.
Originally I was gonna buy both Republics and Pagans, but if Republics get delayed for goddamn vikings, after we've had to suffer through Aztecs, I'll simply keep my 7 dollars.
Still getting Republics+Trade for certain.
Imagine how well the player could use those 10,000 levied men that the Duke of Mecklenburg has from just 4 counties in 1066. I have upgraded Duchies of Ulster, Clydesdale, and Lancaster that only give 8,500 in 1200!!!
That's an extreme exploit, but I think that under certain conditions (army leaders with zealous or brave; rulers with high piety), pagan soldiers (at least light infantry) in an army should get a sizable attack bonus (berserkers and all that).
New casus belli, always available, "Raiding". You get gold and a very very very small chance the culture in the raided provinces will become yours.
Truces with Christians only last one year.
That's an extreme exploit, but I think that under certain conditions (army leaders with zealous or brave; rulers with high piety), pagan soldiers (at least light infantry) in an army should get a sizable attack bonus (berserkers and all that).
New casus belli, always available, "Raiding". You get gold and a very very very small chance the culture in the raided provinces will become yours.
Truces with Christians only last one year.
Here is why I always say "Republics before pagans": The Nordic kings were legitimized (especially Norse Pagan ones) by the tings more than anything. Essentially elective monarchy works well in this case, but generally land was not ruled by nobles, but by the democratic assembly. Nobles taking over was influence from the south. So for a Norse Pagan DLC to work right, you would need better mechanics on how to deal with republics WITHIN your kingdom as the local tings can easily be represented by that. The bigger tings, I find, might need specific mechanics.
In other words, I say "Republics before pagans" because I want the pagan DLC to be as good as it can be.
@Alerias Overreacting a bit, aren't you? Aztecs were not that bad, and no one has been forced to suffer through them.
In other words, I say "Republics before pagans" because I want the pagan DLC to be as good as it can be.
@Alerias Overreacting a bit, aren't you? Aztecs were not that bad, and no one has been forced to suffer through them.
What would be really cool is a Norse Pagan Viking DLC, with an expansion of the map westwards to Vinland, after all the timeframe fits and it would certainly be more historical than the Aztecs. Sorry if this has been suggested before as I have not read the entire thread.
Only a tiny bit. And yes, we do. Every fluff/silly/pagan mod we get delays the Republic mod with its trade and naval mechanics, and and playing without these is painful. Thus, suffering
And then deal with the bazillion other changes the mod makes, whether you want them or not...
So that's out. Could just change the line in the files to make them playable, but they'll be empty and featureless.
They deserve a DLC to flesh em' out, if the only options are something that overhauls the game completely (and not always in positive ways) or playing something that isn't implemented in any way that was meant to be fully playable.