If Germany controlled all of Continental Europe, where are the likely points of Allied Attack?

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DoomBunny

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Ach CVEs...havnt you seen what happened when Greyjoy covered his invasion of Japan with CVEs....*mutters*

I'm guessing a few Wildcats aren't a match for the GRORIOUS KAMIKAZE?
 

Graf Zeppelin

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Was that the guy who pulled off the glorious 1944 forlorn hope invasion of Hokkaido?
Yes. Cant tell you how happy I am someone gets the reference. Sometimes I feel like a nerd under nerds.
 

Easy-Kill

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Yes. Cant tell you how happy I am someone gets the reference. Sometimes I feel like a nerd under nerds.
I need to ask the reference now.

I did see this on the weekend
IMG_20180311_141224.jpg

Which is probably more creepy than nerdy!
 

Graf Zeppelin

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DonaldDuckLaughing-1_zpsf9a5feff.gif
 

ColonelSolart

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A landing in normandy would stil be one of the best. Maybe somewhere where the allies can cut off germany's oil supply (which is going to be hard if they have all of continental europe). They maybe could make a landing around East-Prussia, although that might be hard for the allies to get the troops transported to there and supply them once they captured a port.
 

PanzerMan7

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Well, let's look at the Luftwaffe. The basic question to ask is if it still get systemically destroyed over an elongated time period? So, from 1943 to 1944, where were all the Luftwaffe fighters?

http://don-caldwell.we.bs/jg26/thtrlosses.htm

thtrloss.gif


If I'm reading this right, the Luftwaffe concentrated about 80% day fighter strength in the West. Without the war in the East, the Luftwaffe is maximally 20% stronger. But the Germans can just spam fighters right? Well, no. Historically they produced enough fighters to contest but their pilot schools can't keep up. They also have an oil problem. This is somewhat mitigated by Baku, Maikop, and Grozny, which well get to later anyways, but this oil is very far away in an occupied land and their transportation hubs are getting bombed. The Germans actually captured Maikop in August 1942 but they actually extracted no oil before withdrawing in January 1943. What's the point? It's not as simple as getting the province. It will take them many months to get production online.

But clearly the oil situation isn't nearly as bad with the war in the East over right? Well, yeah. Still, pilots. To train pilots you need trained pilots and there's a bottleneck. Allied pilots are also conducting sweeps that shoot down your training flights.

So what happens now? Well, the Luftwaffe's destruction takes a few more months and then it is destroyed. Ploesti is systemically destroyed by bombers. Bombers in the Middle East destroy Baku/Allied forces push on Baku, a long away periphery far far away from German supply lines. I think the Allies will follow this strategy of picking at the perimeter and taking resources. WW2 is an industrial war!

Anyways, bombers continue to level the Reich until it starts to resemble Japan in OTL. This takes long but they have a long long time eh?

Then that nuclear thing happens and late 40s Allied tech starts to show. Panther II was a neat concept but how many can you build?
 

DoomBunny

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holoween

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But clearly the oil situation isn't nearly as bad with the war in the East over right? Well, yeah. Still, pilots. To train pilots you need trained pilots and there's a bottleneck. Allied pilots are also conducting sweeps that shoot down your training flights.

how exactly will they shoot down training flights in east prussia or even in russia?
 

Graf Zeppelin

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Well, let's look at the Luftwaffe. The basic question to ask is if it still get systemically destroyed over an elongated time period? So, from 1943 to 1944, where were all the Luftwaffe fighters?

http://don-caldwell.we.bs/jg26/thtrlosses.htm

thtrloss.gif


If I'm reading this right, the Luftwaffe concentrated about 80% day fighter strength in the West. Without the war in the East, the Luftwaffe is maximally 20% stronger. But the Germans can just spam fighters right? Well, no. Historically they produced enough fighters to contest but their pilot schools can't keep up. They also have an oil problem. This is somewhat mitigated by Baku, Maikop, and Grozny, which well get to later anyways, but this oil is very far away in an occupied land and their transportation hubs are getting bombed. The Germans actually captured Maikop in August 1942 but they actually extracted no oil before withdrawing in January 1943. What's the point? It's not as simple as getting the province. It will take them many months to get production online.

But clearly the oil situation isn't nearly as bad with the war in the East over right? Well, yeah. Still, pilots. To train pilots you need trained pilots and there's a bottleneck. Allied pilots are also conducting sweeps that shoot down your training flights.

So what happens now? Well, the Luftwaffe's destruction takes a few more months and then it is destroyed. Ploesti is systemically destroyed by bombers. Bombers in the Middle East destroy Baku/Allied forces push on Baku, a long away periphery far far away from German supply lines. I think the Allies will follow this strategy of picking at the perimeter and taking resources. WW2 is an industrial war!

Anyways, bombers continue to level the Reich until it starts to resemble Japan in OTL. This takes long but they have a long long time eh?

Then that nuclear thing happens and late 40s Allied tech starts to show. Panther II was a neat concept but how many can you build?
Hmmm I am not Göring but I would train my pilots out of Allied fighter sweep range in that scenario.
 

Henry IX

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Hmmm I am not Göring but I would train my pilots out of Allied fighter sweep range in that scenario.

Thankfully even in this horrific alt-history scenario Goring remains a drug addicted idiot who prefers designing uniforms to actually administering his complex and demanding portfolio of roles. So I will guess that training will continue occurring in the same designated training centres.
 

Mder1

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This one is definetly nerdy:
120118907.jpg

12063423.jpg

And this is in Konstanz.

I think we have eventually got her.

There are quite a few Pubs, etc. named after the man around Lake Constance.
 

thedarkendstar

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Nuclear weapons.

Perhaps trying to get the Russians back into the war might be interesting, depending on the situation in the Soviet Union.
Can you imagine how mad Hitler would be if Berlin was nuked I would love a video of that.
 

PanzerMan7

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how exactly will they shoot down training flights in east prussia or even in russia?
Well, I ask why they didn't simply do that already. I think it's not so simple for industrial scale training of pilots wherever, especially in occupied land. Individuals here and there sure. Yes yes of course there is a lot more AA resistance to the Allies and higher losses accordingly and more time needed to destroy the Luftwaffe and all that, but, well this is just my pseudoexpert internet smartguy opinion, but it doesn't really matter. The Germans don't have the pilot training infrastructure in place to replace their losses. They planned for a short war. You know why there's no allied pilots with 100 or 200 kills? As soon as pilots became high aces, 20 kills or so, they are pulled from the front and train. The Germans in theory could develop this infrastructure I do grant but I claim it will be too little too late. The Germans simply planned for a short war and cannot control the skies.

But the flak? Oh BB that flak gonna be brutal for the boys up there.
 

Kovax

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You know why there's no allied pilots with 100 or 200 kills? As soon as pilots became high aces, 20 kills or so, they are pulled from the front and train.
Clearly the opinion of a "pseudoexpert internet smartguy" (as you put it - and my rebuff is not meant to be taken too seriously). I believe that many American bomber crews were sent back to the US as instructors after around 20-30 missions. If fighter pilots had stayed in combat until they accumulated "20 kills or so", the US wouldn't have had much of a training program: many of them never got a kill, but ran enough missions to qualify as instructors.

I'm reminded of the one comment by a gamer about "imagine how many kills a real soldier gets in a war". My reply was "less than one". If each soldier killed 2 enemy, both sides would have exterminated each others' entire armies twice. Considering how many survive the war, that pretty much makes the overly inflated kill count look silly. The vast majority of soldiers never inflict a casualty, and possibly never even fire a shot at an enemy.
 

holoween

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Well, I ask why they didn't simply do that already.

2 fairly simple reasons.

1 they didnt get their training aircraft shot down even training in germany
2 putting your flight schools right into the path of an advancing soviet army isnt really a good idea.

also while the us training program is a great system it doesnt really work when you need every last pilot to actually fly aircraft because your airforce is under such heavy pressure.
the reason german pilot training wasnt as good as the allied one is more due to the fact that they didnt have the fuel and time to actually train them for long enough.