If DLC #12 is China, what should DLCs 10 & 11 be?

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

Adding China would require implementing a unique government form that's not transferrable to any other country in the game. Hence why it wouldn't work. If you want to know more, then I suggest you read this thread where China experts discuss what would need to be in order to accurately model medieval China in CK2. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...nics-would-need-to-be-added-for-china.859962/

Your own link seems to disprove what you say. The first post (with 17 upvotes and no downvotes) indicates that china could be represented quite easily and isn't beyond the scope of previous DLCs like HL or SoI. Also china is quite a large region and wasn't united for much of the CK2 period(5 dynasties 10 kingdoms anyone?) so it wouldn't just be a single country using the government type even if we assume vassals are removed.

 

[Maldeus]

The first post might have a lot of people agreeing with it, but that doesn't make it correct. Later posts detail the actual differences between China and feudal Europe, specifically the fact that landed title owners and people who controlled military levies were completely different. There would have to be an entirely different government type. My knowledge of Byzantium is shaky, but I think a new Imperial government type that divorced military power from all ranks from king on down could probably also be used for them in certain eras. Possibly also some Muslim empires.

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

The first post might have a lot of people agreeing with it, but that doesn't make it correct. Later posts detail the actual differences between China and feudal Europe, specifically the fact that landed title owners and people who controlled military levies were completely different. There would have to be an entirely different government type. My knowledge of Byzantium is shaky, but I think a new Imperial government type that divorced military power from all ranks from king on down could probably also be used for them in certain eras. Possibly also some Muslim empires.

Considering that Horse Lords added the nomads, who are very different from the standard feudal European affair if a touch OP, different doesn't seem to be much of an obstacle. I have seen good posts on how a bureaucratic system could function in CK2 without being so its not like there are no ideas for how it could work.

 

[Sernista]

10 and 11 both focused on improving character interactions and general game content that isn't directly linked to the strategic map, with an eye towards enabling unlanded play in future when enough gameplay is fleshed out to allow it. Play realm politics and gather supporters to one day reclaim your family's rightful throne, or carve out a kingdom in far away lands as an adventurer, or... etc.

What, we're allowed to dream big here, right?

 

[bluesmith]

The first post might have a lot of people agreeing with it, but that doesn't make it correct. Later posts detail the actual differences between China and feudal Europe, specifically the fact that landed title owners and people who controlled military levies were completely different. There would have to be an entirely different government type. My knowledge of Byzantium is shaky, but I think a new Imperial government type that divorced military power from all ranks from king on down could probably also be used for them in certain eras. Possibly also some Muslim empires.

You could also conceivably use this for Goryeo and make it something nomads and tribals could adopt (perhaps culturally limited). It seems like a worthwhile investment, and certainly no more limited in scope than other expansions have been.

To address the OP:

DLC 10 - Warriors of God.
+ Holy war and crusade overhaul.
+ Heresy overhaul / improved religion mechanics.
+ Combat overhaul.

DLC 11 - Tradewinds.
+ Improved trade routes / silk road system. Land and sea.
+ Rudimentary "goods" system. Provinces produce "goods" based on (i) intrinsic province modifiers (i.e., "gold rich," "iron rich," "horse rich") and (ii) culture modifiers. Trade routes can facilitate their trade (see above) between provinces. Nothing too fancy.
+ Navies (see first point re sea routes).

DLC 12 - Mandate of Heaven.
+ Map expansion (China, Korea, Japan, northern SEA).
+ Bureaucracy government type. Used by ERE, China, Korea by default. Japan can use feudal.
+ Stability simulation for very large empires (Mandate of Heaven).

 

[Finnway]

Considering that Horse Lords added the nomads, who are very different from the standard feudal European affair if a touch OP, different doesn't seem to be much of an obstacle. I have seen good posts on how a bureaucratic system could function in CK2 without being so its not like there are no ideas for how it could work.

No-one is arguing that it's impossible for Paradox to add China. If you go back to my original post, I was simply advocating releasing a DLC that adds general empire-management mechanics before adding in China. People have been asking for empire managment mechanics and to me it makes sense to establish a framework for empire management before adding in government mechanics that are unique to China. Especially since Chinese mechanics probably wouldn't be transferrable to other countries in the game. But Paradox wouldn't have to do it that way, that's just my idea.

 

[Dagda]

No-one is arguing that it's impossible for Paradox to add China. If you go back to my original post, I was simply advocating releasing a DLC that adds general empire-management mechanics before adding in China. People have been asking for empire managment mechanics and to me it makes sense to establish a framework for empire management before adding in government mechanics that are unique to China. Especially since Chinese mechanics probably wouldn't be transferrable to other countries in the game. But Paradox wouldn't have to do it that way, that's just my idea.

Proper empire mechanics sounds like free patch material alongside a China DLC.

 

[Maldeus]

Considering that Horse Lords added the nomads, who are very different from the standard feudal European affair if a touch OP, different doesn't seem to be much of an obstacle. I have seen good posts on how a bureaucratic system could function in CK2 without being so its not like there are no ideas for how it could work.

Oh, sure. I didn't mean to imply that adding a new government type is an insurmountable obstacle, because Paradox has already proven it's well within their capabilities. Just pointing out that China would need a non-feudal government type that plays radically different, like tribal or nomadic. I'd like to see one that upgrades from feudal like feudal is an upgrade from tribal, because that gives a nice sort of bookend to the game. In the earliest bookmark tribals are like a third of the map and feudalism is the new hotness. At the end people have reached the limits of feudalism and are starting to upgrade to imperial bureaucracies.

 

[Finnway]

Proper empire mechanics sounds like free patch material alongside a China DLC.

Maybe. Adding China is a huge project by itself. It's an even bigger map extension than India. And it would require even more unique cultural mechanics since China can't use Europe's feudal mechanics like India did. Hence why I'm advocating adding general empire mechanics first and the map extension and unique Chinese mechanics and events later. They wouldn't have to be a paid feature either.

 

[spendabuck]

I have a question; if there is a DLC based on empires, which nations would use the new Imperial government? I know the Byzantines would as well as China if Paradox makes a China DLC. I think an empire DLC would be great, I'm just curious to see what nations could change to an Imperial government.

 

[Sernista]

I have a question; if there is a DLC based on empires, which nations would use the new Imperial government? I know the Byzantines would as well as China if Paradox makes a China DLC. I think an empire DLC would be great, I'm just curious to see what nations could change to an Imperial government.

I could see a successful Caliphate using the Imperial model, or indeed if the HRE managed to centralize power it could be a potential end goal - one likely to see much strife in the efforts to implement it, of course.

 

[majorlupa]

China should be separate game if you ask me. Or at least map.

 

[CplKatie]

DLC 10 will be Gauntlet mode and Selective regions mode. Gauntlet mode will be ironman mode without saves. Get as much as you can before your computer crashes, or the power goes out.
Selective region mode will be the ability to exlude sections of the map from drawing and interacting with your game. Don't like Rajas and Horde 2.0? Remove them from the map with the option to enable the mongal/sunset invasions as an event. Sick of africa? Thats ok remove it from the map and Play as the european count you desire or norse raider without having to devote 90% of your computers processing power to 1000s of characters you'll never interact with. Change your mind after 300 years? Thats ok re enable a region and feed it history info from the most relevant start date.

Oh and one more mode. Featured Play mode. Have a video that plays as a plugin on the forum page, the paradox fb page and their main site that streams a random players video play till they quit or till they recieve X amount of dislikes from the forum. Have the streamcast app for people to interact with the player playing as well. Make the requirement to play be that the player must have all dlc's enabled and running in gauntlet mode.