If Consumer Goods were crippling but.....

[Dalinski]

What if Consumer Goods grew to be crippling ........but you could trade with another nation for a reduction in Consumer Good cost.

This might make really large empires rely on smaller ones for trade purposes?

Might be interesting if you had a consumer good factory building as well that might reduce the consumer good penalty as well as boost its effects for trade.

 

[Serenity84]

Sort of what Hearts of Iron IV does with civilian vs military factories

 

[Dalinski]

And for nations with no friends there is....

- The Delicacy Factory is a building that reduces the consumer good penalty when species are purged

 

[Atlantians]

And for nations with no friends there is....

- The Delicacy Factory is a building that reduces the consumer good penalty when species are purged

Blorg taste better than they look.

 

[Zwollenaer]

Yes, I think we can expect something like this in one of the next updates. Consumer goods could be the first step towards creating a trade system.

 

[aprogressivist]

I think this risks over-thinking the concept. Consumer Goods are basically just a standing mineral cost to reduce overall empire productivity because the devs feel minerals snowball in the mid-late game. So in effect, when you trade for monthly mineral income, you would be countering the Consumer Goods cost.

Certainly I think they should add Consumer Goods-related Strategic Resources that can reduce the Consumer Good penalties. (e.g. imagine having five Strategic Resources that each give a -5% reduction on the Consumer Goods, cumulatively up to -25%...)

But before you can break down Consumer Goods to create a trade system, you'd have to break down the more fundamental blocks of the economy -- energy & minerals.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

I think this risks over-thinking the concept. Consumer Goods are basically just a standing mineral cost to reduce overall empire productivity because the devs feel minerals snowball in the mid-late game

I disagree, yes that is the idea behind introducing consumer goods but that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't expand it. And making it so trade alleviates some of the costs of consumer goods would be a great way IMO to offer a clear benefit to allowing other empires to exist and to buff the peaceful/international play-style.

Certainly I think they should add Consumer Goods-related Strategic Resources that can reduce the Consumer Good penalties. (e.g. imagine having five Strategic Resources that each give a -5% reduction on the Consumer Goods, cumulatively up to -25%...)

If it works balance wise then sure.

But before you can break down Consumer Goods to create a trade system, you'd have to break down the more fundamental blocks of the economy -- energy & minerals.

Why?

 

[Magnificent Genius]

Before they can have a trade system, they have to have something to trade. Right now you have a few strategic resources, and food, minerals and energy. They would need to add a whole new class of trade goods for each planet to have, with discrete worth and bonuses.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Before they can have a trade system, they have to have something to trade. Right now you have a few strategic resources, and food, minerals and energy. They would need to add a whole new class of trade goods for each planet to have, with discrete worth and bonuses.

If every planet's resources were local and you had to ship them to the worlds that could make use of them, that'd make trade workable right there.

 

[Magnificent Genius]

If every planet's resources were local and you had to ship them to the worlds that could make use of them, that'd make trade workable right there.

True, but that is micromanagement in a big way, which as near as I can tell is the opposite of the way Paradox is going with this game.

I'd like to see them add a Galactic Market where you could put up resources for sale, and buy resources that other empires put up. Sort of like in Age of Empires, but more fleshed out.

 

[LastLeviathan]

True, but that is micromanagement in a big way, which as near as I can tell is the opposite of the way Paradox is going with this game.

I'd like to see them add a Galactic Market where you could put up resources for sale, and buy resources that other empires put up. Sort of like in Age of Empires, but more fleshed out.

They already are local which makes it so micro heavy. Adding an automated trade system where food for example would transport to your various worlds wouldn't add micro.

 

[faljen_isus]

consumer goods will be a welcomed step in creating a galactic trade system
the more i think about the subject the more i feel there should be a new building for them and a new good like minerals and energy

all we need after that is a galactic currency system and then we are on a roll

 

[Fourthspartan56]

consumer goods will be a welcomed step in creating a galactic trade system
the more i think about the subject the more i feel there should be a new building for them and a new good like minerals and energy

all we need after that is a galactic currency system and then we are on a roll

I agree with everything except galactic currency, that could be plausible if a possible reform for Federations/some kind of galactic council but for normal trade between empires pure resource exchange would make more sense IMO.

 

[aprogressivist]

I disagree, yes that is the idea behind introducing consumer goods but that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't expand it. And making it so trade alleviates some of the costs of consumer goods would be a great way IMO to offer a clear benefit to allowing other empires to exist and to buff the peaceful/international play-style.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, I'm just trying to point out how much you have to do before you get to the OP's stated intent. The whole idea of making small empires more potent at trading still suffers from the same fundamental issue that affects all "tall vs wide" discussion in Stellaris.

Let me take your ball and roll with it: assume that in 1.6 or something, they introduce Factories, which are built in Mineral patches and produce Consumer Goods as a separate resource -- thus creating a market of efficiencies, since Consumer Goods are effectively produced from Minerals, but different Empires will have different tech levels, thus creating different efficiency levels for the Mineral:Consumer Good production. Thus Empires with good M:CG conversion would be able to trade to Empires with poor M:CG conversion.

That would be a good start to hashing out a more evolved trade system, but what it would not necessarily do is make larger Empires more reliant on smaller Empires for trade -- a stated objective of the OP. In fact, this could well be counter-productive: if the larger Empire has the tech edge*, it might well be more efficient than its smaller neighbours -- thus being able to sell them CGs for Ms, and getting a profit out of the bargain.

* (I know smaller Empires are more efficient at research tech in theory -- but I'm sceptical at how that holds out in practice with human players, who will create dedicated research planets in their large Empires and thus likely out-tech their opponents.)

EDIT NOTE:

Possibly one way to introduce better efficiencies for smaller Empires would be to introduce civilian/local trade modifiers.

 

[aprogressivist]

Here's another thought: because right now there's not yet a concept of trade routes, and you can trade all the way across the galaxy without penalty, creating a CG efficiency would potentially allow one Empire be more efficient than everyone else, thus encouraging them to trade with the whole galaxy -- potentially reaping massive Mineral profits.

And that just sounds a bit OP. Markets aren't just about being more efficient than your competition, they're also about delivering your goods. So before we talk too much of markets, we need to talk of trade routes...

 

[Ferrumius]

If more pop and planets require more consumer goods it actually makes sense fore large empires to depend on small empires for consumer goods. Let's say 5 pop require 5 consumer goods while 10 pop require 15 consumer goods. In the end too large empire can't produce enough on their own while small empire have enough to trade.

Problem is what would this trade agreement do for the small empire? Consumer good is a form of mineral basically and it won't make any sense to trade mineral for it. Naturally it would be food or energy that large empire has to offer and both are not as much important as mineral at least in current game. We have to see how food works in 1.5 at least.

But this will certainly add interesting diplomatic situation to the game which it lacks. There is little to no point to keep a vassal or protectorate in current game but if will play more important role for a large empire. And as small empire plays important role in their trade partners economy they have to be protected by large empires.

 

[faljen_isus]

i am a fan of currency (gold pressed latinum here i come) for a simple reason, it would probably lack a stock limit, and it would allow for a banking system (looking at you banking clan)

right now we have massive floats of energy and minerals, while we will have mineral floats cut with CGs we will most probably see energy floats
we also have the ability to increase mineral storage, while energy storage is capped
bringing my next point, small empires cant have ludacris amounts of minerals no matter the production because of the inability to produce storage

adding currency fixes that and gives another variable for trade, also gives (hopefully in the future) corporations inside empires something to work with in game-mech terms

also just for the lulz lets make currency creation go with the following equation C=e/m*c where C is currency income, e is energy income, m mineral income and c consumer goods income (basically a butchered e=m*c^2 since c^2=c*c )

 

[Adamsrealm]

What if Consumer Goods grew to be crippling ........but you could trade with another nation for a reduction in Consumer Good cost.

This might make really large empires rely on smaller ones for trade purposes?

Might be interesting if you had a consumer good factory building as well that might reduce the consumer good penalty as well as boost its effects for trade.

You can trade for additional monthly income in energy and minerals, so it's already in the game technically.

 

[Dalinski]

Problem is what would this trade agreement do for the small empire? .

Well, it might not necessarily mean trading Consumer goods for Consumer Goods. How about Research Agreement for Consumer Goods or some other combination.

 

[Ferrumius]

Well, it might not necessarily mean trading Consumer goods for Consumer Goods. How about Research Agreement for Consumer Goods or some other combination.

Sure, anything that won't be waste because of resource cap is useful. Actually the more I think about this whole trade agreement mechanic it makes more sense.
It opens up whole new possibilities such as small neutral country which protected by multiple trade agreement with large empires.

But you know, the AI is.....