Idyllic Bloomers can't bloom tomb worlds. :(

[HFY]

Yeah so it's cool to update it but it's still functioning as a challenge origin (or a balanced towards being crap origin). A warning or an update would be nice. It doesn't need to cannibalize other origins and civics to get that.

Regardless I don't even care about Life seeded. I feel like somehow it's become a topic of this thread when we both agree in different ways it can be updated and made better.

What I highly disagree with is breaking existing combos, civics, and origins to do so. It's just a bad suggestion. I don't want to lose aspects of the game I enjoy for an origin I only use for larping.

Just like you don't care about Life Seeded, I don't think anyone else cares about it either. To me that's a waste.

Not sure what "existing combo" is supposed to be preserved here, since nobody seems to care about it.

I can currently select Idyllic Bloom and Post-Apocalyptic. A combo I was really excited about because it feels like a RP fixing the mistakes of my empires past. Like a gardener bringing a planet back to life. I do not want to lose that combo for any reason. I originally made this combo hoping to see an AI empire slowly fix their tomb worlds into gaias. That can't happen even with the worm.

Yeah but that's not just you going against the implementation, that's a request to go against a fundamental design limit.

The design limit is that you can only Bloom worlds which match your preference, and per the Dev Diaries that limit was deliberate.

You *CAN* do your combo already. (Worm is meta not meme.) You can also code an Origin mod which does exactly what you want -- I did that with some extragalactic clusters to give the Caravanners better routing. Maybe you can Climate Restoration your homeworld back into your preference and then Bloom it? There are solutions.

 

[TrotBot]

i think there should just be some sort of midgame archeology event to embrace tombworld habitability as a reward for completing it. it would be a nice touch to polish the origin, and it would make it possible to use idyllic bloomers on tombworlds if you do it

 

[klopkr]

Yeah but that's not just you going against the implementation, that's a request to go against a fundamental design limit.

The design limit is that you can only Bloom worlds which match your preference, and per the Dev Diaries that limit was deliberate.

You *CAN* do your combo already. (Worm is meta not meme.) You can also code an Origin mod which does exactly what you want -- I did that with some extragalactic clusters to give the Caravanners better routing. Maybe you can Climate Restoration your homeworld back into your preference and then Bloom it? There are solutions.

What dev diary are you talking about? I don't see anyone saying anything about design limits or that this is WAD. The two traits can be picked together. There's no reason there can't be an exception to allow idyllic bloom on tomb worlds for post-apocalypse origins.

I don't care about meta, the AI will never play meta. It was funny the first time you posted about the worm. Now you just won't stop bringing up the event. It's not relevant. It's not a fix.

Even if it's WAD I don't agree with it. Hence the thread. Disagree if you want but drop it when I say I disagree and won't ever agree. I gave you a respectfully disagree, I explained why. Now you get it. Stop arguing with me about whether this origin civic combo should work.

 

[Dragatus]

Life seeded and Idyllic Bloom are a born combo and tbh probably just a straight up bonus since it significantly speeds up the amount of time it would take to make other planets useful to your primary species. I think it should still be allowed though since I've never been too worried about good civic synergies. I don't really feel that most civics and origins are balanced so it should only really matter in MP.

If you take Life-seeded your ideal planet type is Gaia, so you would be unable to build Gaia Seeders at all (because none of the non-Gaia planets are your ideal type). However, I do agree that Life-seeded + Idyllic Bloomers would make for a fantastic combo in terms of RP/flavor and would like to see it be made functional.

The best solution I think would be to simply get rid of the requirement that the planet ought to be of an ideal type. That would simultaneously solve the issue for both Post-Apocalyptic and Life-seeded. The only general conditions should be that the colony is not an artificial world, not an Ecumenopolis, and not already a Gaia. It would be fine too if building Gaia Seeders on Tomb Worlds would require Climate Restoration technology or Post-Apocalyptic origin or Tomb World habitability preference. Beyond these basic limitations however, any type of planet should be valid for building your Gaia Seeders.

 

[Ryika]

The best solution I think would be to simply get rid of the requirement that the planet ought to be of an ideal type. That would simultaneously solve the issue for both Post-Apocalyptic and Life-seeded.

But that would also mean that any origin can just turn any planet into a Gaia world with ease, which would completely remove the need for normal terraforming.

I think that's a bit much, it's only a Civic after all. If the goal is to make the Civic work with these origins, then pecial cases for special Origins seem a lot more reasonable to me.

 

[Triscopic]

I’d welcome the introduction of a two step process… Step one allows blooming any non ideal, non artificial, non ecumenopolis/relic world into your ideal type. Step 2 blooms the ideal type into gaia world.

I think it would be fun to gradually shift any world into your class and then beyond. It might be OP to have such a route open up before/without terraforming for all worlds, but it could also be locked behind the terraforming tech

 

[Dragatus]

But that would also mean that any origin can just turn any planet into a Gaia world with ease, which would completely remove the need for normal terraforming.

I think that's a bit much, it's only a Civic after all. If the goal is to make the Civic work with these origins, then pecial cases for special Origins seem a lot more reasonable to me.

That's a fair concern, I didn't think of that.

I’d welcome the introduction of a two step process… Step one allows blooming any non ideal, non artificial, non ecumenopolis/relic world into your ideal type. Step 2 blooms the ideal type into gaia world.

I think it would be fun to gradually shift any world into your class and then beyond. It might be OP to have such a route open up before/without terraforming for all worlds, but it could also be locked behind the terraforming tech

And this sounds like a good solution to the problem.

 

[HFY]

I’d welcome the introduction of a two step process… Step one allows blooming any non ideal, non artificial, non ecumenopolis/relic world into your ideal type. Step 2 blooms the ideal type into gaia world.

Step one looks like Terrestrial Sculpting.

 

[Deshiba]

If you take Life-seeded your ideal planet type is Gaia, so you would be unable to build Gaia Seeders at all (because none of the non-Gaia planets are your ideal type). However, I do agree that Life-seeded + Idyllic Bloomers would make for a fantastic combo in terms of RP/flavor and would like to see it be made functional.

So how would that work? You get double habitability but Gaia just gives -200% on all other worlds?

Beyond these basic limitations however, any type of planet should be valid for building your Gaia Seeders.

The problem with making Idyllic bloom capable of transforming every world, is that it completely invalidates the world shaper ascension perk. Ideally you don't want the civic to replace already existing content.

 

[Deshiba]

I’d welcome the introduction of a two step process… Step one allows blooming any non ideal, non artificial, non ecumenopolis/relic world into your ideal type. Step 2 blooms the ideal type into gaia world.

I think it would be fun to gradually shift any world into your class and then beyond. It might be OP to have such a route open up before/without terraforming for all worlds, but it could also be locked behind the terraforming tech

With terraforming tech the current version is already a 2 step process. Terraform to ideal, the bloom to gaia. With world shaper perk you could skip the entire civic though.

 

[HFY]

With terraforming tech the current version is already a 2 step process. Terraform to ideal, the bloom to gaia. With world shaper perk you could skip the entire civic though.

True, but AP slots are also in high demand -- might as well say with the Civic you can skip World Shaper, giving you room for Executive Vigor or something else juicy.

 

[Deshiba]

True, but AP slots are also in high demand -- might as well say with the Civic you can skip World Shaper, giving you room for Executive Vigor or something else juicy.

Exactly the point. A civic and an ascenscion perk should not compete for the same niche. 1 of the 2 is going to loose out making no one happy.

 

[HFY]

Exactly the point. A civic and an ascenscion perk should not compete for the same niche. 1 of the 2 is going to loose out making no one happy.

Eh, I think right now they are both useful.

I don't mind if there's more than one way to do each thing -- but you're right that they shouldn't just be identical things in different slots.

 

[klopkr]

Exactly the point. A civic and an ascenscion perk should not compete for the same niche. 1 of the 2 is going to loose out making no one happy.

Isn't that exactly what barbaric despoiler does?

 

[Deshiba]

Isn't that exactly what barbaric despoiler does?

Isn't that exactly why barbaric despoilers doesn't get used except for memes?
You're reinforcing my case there bro

 

[TrotBot]

Isn't that exactly why barbaric despoilers doesn't get used except for memes?
You're reinforcing my case there bro

What origin does barbaric despoilers compete with?

 

[HFY]

What origin does barbaric despoilers compete with?

Barbaric Despoilers competes with Nihilistic Acquisition AP, not any other Origin.

Just like Idyllic Bloom competes with World Shaper AP.

 

[TrotBot]

Barbaric Despoilers competes with Nihilistic Acquisition AP, not any other Origin.

Just like Idyllic Bloom competes with World Shaper AP.

oh, that's fine.

 

[HFY]

oh, that's fine.

Yeah AFAICT nobody really has a problem with it.

 

[Deshiba]

oh, that's fine.

it's far from optimal or covetable.