Identity Crisis

[Susan2112]

I've been playing HOI4 for about 100 or so hours now, and I have a question: Is this a historical simulator or a strategy game?

I'm playing as the USA right now, and I have this big, nasty army ready to plow over Mexico. Unfortunately, because of some arbitrary restrictions, I can't. I decided to stick close to history in the focus trees as that route is extremely beneficial for research and industrial development. But that also means that I can't attack Mexico (and before anyone asks why, I say "why not" )

I've tried the Fascist tree and not only are there less gameplay advantages, it guarantees a civil war (indeed, seems to almost require one, based on the later focuses in the tree) and the communist route hardly seems better. Even the Oil Fields Event didn't let me actually declare, even though I left the option open. My intel operatives didn't have the option of pushing them away from democracy and thus address that arbitrary condition. Nor did infiltrating their government.

This seems to be a problem with the base game as it's not quite such an issue in Old World Blues or Kaiserreich. Is there something I'm missing or is Paradox trying to do two things at once?

 

[Paul.Ketcham]

The game is intended to play the line between both being a historically-based strategy game and an open sandbox, with restrictions on democratic behavior being based in historic limitations (although various exploits to create world tension can still enable democracies to attack other democracies).

The US in particular is fairly-restricted, largely due to the basically-nonexistent path towards either fascism or communism outside of a civil war. The right-wing democratic path does offer you some opportunities for aggressive action, but I've basically never played the US outside of the Democratic Party path. Several other nations have restrictions to switching ideology, such as Germany not being able to go democratic without a civil war.

Spoiler: If you're willing to use console commands to switch ideology:

Start with the tilde, or ` symbol, to open. Then:

add_party_popularity f 100​

set_ruling_party f​

F switches to fascism, while c switches to communism (both can freely attack other nations). I can't remember what restrictions the great depression or other US starting spirits affect its ability to start a war, so you might still need to pass some of the focus tree.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

The ridiculous meme thread sets forth a lot of bad turns the game has made.

 

[Susan2112]

@PK, Thanks for the tip

@GH I've seen that, but I've not been playing long enough to feel one side of that discussion or another.

I'm really ready to dismiss HOI4 and EU4 as needlessly complicated and over-long Rogue-likes along the lines of, say, FTL: Faster Than Light. Between random events, arbitrary restrictions and rigid focus trees, I'm not sure what skills of the player these games are meant to test.

If you all get some joy out of this that I don't, then my opinion shouldn't matter.

 

[Bunnytob]

Is this a historical simulator or a strategy game?

Depending on who you ask, neither.

 

[desphorin]

If I understand you correctly, you choose to play a historical path, and believe that you should be able to do non-historical (and imo nonsensical in a democratic setting) things?

Btw you can switch to Communist USA and therefore allow aggressive play without going through a civil war. Go down the suspend prosecution sub branch, but dont ever take Full Desegregation. With enough support from hiring the minister, you can eventually take Democratic Socialism and change to the red ideology peacefully.

 

[Susan2112]

If I understand you correctly, you choose to play a historical path, and believe that you should be able to do non-historical (and imo nonsensical in a democratic setting) things?

Btw you can switch to Communist USA and therefore allow aggressive play without going through a civil war. Go down the suspend prosecution sub branch, but dont ever take Full Desegregation. With enough support from hiring the minister, you can eventually take Democratic Socialism and change to the red ideology peacefully.

Oh, I could do that. But doing so locks out a lot of very useful focii.

And that seems to be a vote for "historical simulator" over "game". There's certainly no challenge in simply connecting the dots, is there? I mean, the base game combat is just pure attrition slog with zero tactics, so there's no challenge there.

What player skill does HOI4 test, then?

 

[Cpt.Cross]

I think at its heart its a production management simulator set during the time period of the 2nd World War with some light political elements. Gameplay comes down to producing enough of the right equipment and assigning it to the right places ensuring supply is sufficient.

 

[Susan2112]

I think at its heart its a production management simulator set during the time period of the 2nd World War with some light political elements. Gameplay comes down to producing enough of the right equipment and assigning it to the right places ensuring supply is sufficient.

I can see that. And, looking at it that way does enhance my appreciation for it. I suppose it's just a question of adjusting expectations.