Ideas for Ottoderp for 1000 provinces

[ErikHeinrichs]

So when the patch hits first achievements i'll do is the 1000 provinces and silk road. I have been thinking about national ideas as Ottoman. I come to the conclusion that best would be to flip to Orthodox "immediately" and take religious idea first so i can basicly war against anyone for free provinces until diplo tech 22. And of course like a mad man conquer Golden Horde and Kazan so i border Muscowy so i can stop them from colonizing Siberia (isn't it like 70-90 provinces?).

Any ideas/thoughts from you guys?

 

[Pornek]

Great thread, was thinking about doing the very same thing.

Not sure so about the Orthodox flip though. In general I like the early techcost reduction (loss of piety) more then the permanent CB and the reduced usage of diplopoints. Getting a CB isnt really an issue since the bulk of territory is either reconquest via vassal (basically all of Timmies and QQ) or the Expansion CB. The few early provinces can be done in via claims.

Though I can definetly see the benefit of it aswell. I also think starting out with religious is the right move and opening an admingroup has the added benefit of having an abundance of diplopoints which can be spend on peacedeals.

Edit: Should note however that I want to do WC aswell, so I guess some plans would differ a lot.

 

[zodium]

Ottomans dominate militarily so much that you can just start declaring war. Any obstacle to conquest is too much now that you can't seize the HRE throne before what, the mid to late 1500s? Just worry about maximizing conquest speed by staying Sunni and going Humanist over Religious. You can hit +3 tolerance to everything, so there's no need to convert anything at all. Influence -> Humanist -> Administrative (first 3) -> Diplomatic -> Expansion is pretty much as good as it gets, provided you're good enough to take on all comers militarily. Which you are if you're going for 1000 provinces.

Flip Humanist and Administrative if you're getting lucky with theologians and whatnot.

 

[Pornek]

Ottomans dominate militarily so much that you can just start declaring war. Any obstacle to conquest is too much now that you can't seize the HRE throne before what, the mid to late 1500s? Just worry about maximizing conquest speed by staying Sunni and going Humanist over Religious. You can hit +3 tolerance to everything, so there's no need to convert anything at all. Influence -> Humanist -> Administrative (first 3) -> Diplomatic -> Expansion is pretty much as good as it gets, provided you're good enough to take on all comers militarily. Which you are if you're going for 1000 provinces.

Flip Humanist and Administrative if you're getting lucky with theologians and whatnot.

All Humanist really offers is money and internal stability. Not so sure if one really needs it given your ideasetup without a military idea at all. The only way to spend the points effectivly before capping out is on HT, which in return gives internal stability.
The CB, stabcost and majority of good events IMO make religious a lot more attractive. You also get bonus to converting the heretics, which nicely works together with the tolerance bonus to heathens.

 

[PedroVargas]

I also prefer Religious. You'll blob so hard that not even Humanist makes cultures acepted and other than that there is barely a real use as the Ottomans have a surprisingly stable state.

Just try to limit France's expansion early, they keep up with you in army size and have substantially better armies late game. In my current game they already blob into Italy and give me a very hard time even defensively in the mountains and with same mil tech. They're just being France.

BTW an Ottoman game started in 1.8 will not fire the achievement? I just started a Make-Europe-Sunni game a couple of days back which would be a solid base.

 

[zodium]

All Humanist really offers is money and internal stability. Not so sure if one really needs it given your ideasetup without a military idea at all. The only way to spend the points effectivly before capping out is on HT, which in return gives internal stability.
The CB, stabcost and majority of good events IMO make religious a lot more attractive. You also get bonus to converting the heretics, which nicely works together with the tolerance bonus to heathens.

You need it (well, need is a strong word, but it's easily superior to Religious), because it means you don't have 9-15 months/province of very high RR when you conquer something. You just add it and ninja-core it with your -(33+25+25)% core cost reductions. If you go Religious, you're gonna be taking at most 100% OE worth of provinces at a time, which seriously disrupts your ability to trucebreak or cycle coalitions. With Humanist, you just keep declaring war all day every day.

If Ottomans didn't have the ridiculous -33% core time reduction, it'd be a different story, but Humanist provides a qualitative advantage over Religious that makes it a no-brainer as things stand.

BTW an Ottoman game started in 1.8 will not fire the achievement? I just started a Make-Europe-Sunni game a couple of days back which would be a solid base.

It won't fire.

 

[Artyom87]

i'd imagine influence>admin is best for expansion, then maybe religious as a 3rd. I dont see any benefit from humanism compared to religious

the religion switch is unnecessary since you can fabricate claims most of the time. I think this religion switch strategy would only slow things down, immensely

 

[dirtInfestor2]

You need it (well, need is a strong word, but it's easily superior to Religious), because it means you don't have 9-15 months/province of very high RR when you conquer something. You just add it and ninja-core it with your -(33+25+25)% core cost reductions. If you go Religious, you're gonna be taking at most 100% OE worth of provinces at a time, which seriously disrupts your ability to trucebreak or cycle coalitions. With Humanist, you just keep declaring war all day every day.

If Ottomans didn't have the ridiculous -33% core time reduction, it'd be a different story, but Humanist provides a qualitative advantage over Religious that makes it a no-brainer as things stand.

Well if you plan on trucebreaking you should take Diplomatic over Influence and Religious over Humanist since both Diplo and Religious reduce either Stabcost or reducing War Exhaustion

 

[lolada]

Humanist is good but I would rate Religious quite a bit higher for Ottomans as first pick. It gives great CB that will save you tons of diplo points (and some time also), and religious makes it possible to still convert everything easily AND to go -piety, thus getting up to 20% more tax money (which is substantial), 20% more manpower (great!) and 10% cheaper techs (great!) that will save you even more monarch points. Humanist would be a good pick a bit later.

 

[ErikHeinrichs]

i'd imagine influence>admin is best for expansion, then maybe religious as a 3rd. I dont see any benefit from humanism compared to religious

the religion switch is unnecessary since you can fabricate claims most of the time. I think this religion switch strategy would only slow things down, immensely

Flipping to orthodox as Ottomans since 1.8 is super easy as you don't have to wait for the orthodox rebels to actually spawn. You just take annex Serbia (as they always ally Byxantium now), take Constantinople and Athens and vassalize Byzantium in your first war. Core the Serbian provinces and you got enough orthodox provinces to flip. Just send missionary to one of the three greek provinces with orthodox rebels at start and accept demands. Take just a few years after game start to be orthodox.

 

[zodium]

Well if you plan on trucebreaking you should take Diplomatic over Influence and Religious over Humanist since both Diplo and Religious reduce either Stabcost or reducing War Exhaustion

Trucebreaking in the early game doesn't really make sense, it's more a late game thing after admin. efficiency becomes a factor that lets you gobble up tons of territory per war combined with stab cost modifier and good advisors. Influence -> Humanist -> Administrative (first 3) -> Diplomatic -> Expansion is pretty much as robust as it gets, with the only real question being whether you get lucky enough to pick Admin before Humanist.

 

[dirtInfestor2]

Trucebreaking in the early game doesn't really make sense, it's more a late game thing after admin. efficiency becomes a factor that lets you gobble up tons of territory per war combined with stab cost modifier and good advisors. Influence -> Humanist -> Administrative (first 3) -> Diplomatic -> Expansion is pretty much as robust as it gets, with the only real question being whether you get lucky enough to pick Admin before Humanist.

Yeah but if you know that you want to trucebreak why would you "waste" idea slots then ?

 

[zodium]

Yeah but if you know that you want to trucebreak why would you "waste" idea slots then ?

I don't understand what this means.

 

[dirtInfestor2]

If you want to start with Influence and Humanism but know that you want to trucebreak and thus need Religious ideas (the reduced stabcost is mandatory) why not take Religious instead of Humanism so you have one more slot later in the game.

 

[zodium]

I guess you could go Religious instead of Expansion, but your later slots are pretty much irrelevant anyway. You win or lose in the first 100 years.

 

[ChildeR]

If you want to start with Influence and Humanism but know that you want to trucebreak and thus need Religious ideas (the reduced stabcost is mandatory) why not take Religious instead of Humanism so you have one more slot later in the game.

Religious isn't necessary. Just pick one admin group less and the saved points will buy you a lot of truce-break stability even without the -25% from religious.

I don't know whether humanist is better than religious for Ottomans in 1.9 but it's definitely viable.