Ideas For Fixing Alliance Cascade

[UniversalWolf]

I have a simple two-part plan for fixing this problem.

Part 1

Cap the total number of countries that can enter the war through cascade per DoW. 4-6 should be sufficient.

Part 2

Force any nation not in direct alliance with the original defender to pass a Relations check with an increasing penalty for each step removed from direct alliance.

For example,

Rome declares war on Macedonia. Macedonia's ally Pontus may enter the war in the normal fashion. Pontus's ally Bosporan Kingdom must have Relations => 125 with Macedonia in order to enter the cascade. If BK enters the war, BK's ally Sparta must have Relations => 150 with Macedonia to enter through cascade. And so on.

Something like this would counter the argument that alliance cascade makes diplomacy more important, since such a fix makes diplomacy even more important than raw alliance cascade. A nation with few allies but good Relations with everyone could have many nations rushing to its defense, but a hated nation would have to rely on its direct allies alone. And of course a nation with a habit of repeatedly declaring war could still end up with lots and lots of enemies.

 

[Hardradi]

Simple is often effective.

Part 2 - what if it was your relations with the nation asking for you to join the war less your relations with the nation they are at war with.

Eg, if A & B are at war and you have relations of 200 with each your chance would be nil (200 - 200 = 0)

If C & D are at war and you have 150 relation with C and -75 with D. C asks you to join war the chance is 225 (150 - (-75) = 225)

 

[UniversalWolf]

It certainly makes sense to account for the Relations between the original attacker and the cascading ally as well as the Relations between the original defender and the cascading ally.

The cascade is a complex thing by nature. If you look at it from the standpoint of a nation with the potential to join the cascade, you should be considering your relationships with the attacker, the defender, the ally drawing you in, the other allies already drawn in, your own interest in the outcome of the war, and the current health and stability of your own country. The last two are possibly the most important, since a country with internal problems and little or nothing to gain from the outcome of the war probably shouldn't be jumping in.

Also, a refusal to join a cascade should not automatically break an alliance the way a normal refusal does.

 

[Hardradi]

Good points Wolf.

You are right, a refusal should not automatically break your alliance, especially if you are in the third level down the alliance chain. You should have a right to reply when they refuse, like:

a) Ok, lets continue as we were (minor hit to relations up or down)
b) Re-request in stronger terms (if the refuse big hit to relations with possiability of them finding a new ally of breaking allliance OR they accept with a moderate hit to relations
c) Break alliance
d) Re-request with gifts or wargoal
etc

 

[Olaus Petrus]

While those are interesting thoughts I'm afraid you're bit late:

I've patched the cascading alliance bug and some other issues, but I can't give you a release date for the patch.

So it seems that there will be some sort of solution to cascading alliances.

 

[unmerged(218780)]

If hes done it anything like step 2 of Wolf's plan this will be awesome, Step one id leave open, hell if you are going to cheese of the rest of the world nobody will honour your alliances and people will be more likely to work together against a much larger threat.

 

[UniversalWolf]

So it seems that there will be some sort of solution to cascading alliances.

Well, that's nice to hear. It's still a subject worth discussing though, unless you think Alliance Cascade will be fixed to perfection. Judging by the feedback on the recent EU3 beta patch, I would say no.

One of the ideas behind the AC seems to have been to get rid of the gamey mechanic of indirectly declaring war on one country by declaring war on one of it's allies. Like many facets of AC, this is something I support. However, the unintended consequences of fixing that problem have proven to be worse than the original problem itself. Far worse, in my opinion.

FWIW, the root cause of these difficulties is actually the simplification of diplomacy in general in Paradox games since Victoria. I loved the diplomacy in that game.

 

[Wave]

I've patched the cascading alliance bug and some other issues, but I can't give you a release date for the patch.

Keep your hopes high, official patch has been made but we're just waiting to see it

Thank you Doomdark! It's great to see we aren't forgotten

Somehow I anyway like the bug, it's ... realistic? You know, when you are allied you join the war And sometimes those gangbangs are cool but it requires Magna Terra or some else mod that adds more nations as in Vanilla it's greek countries vs rest and that isn't always nice as Seleucids happen to be greek...