Ideas for doomsday weapon balance

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Mitchz95

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Doomsday weapons are a staple of sci-fi and the devs have hinted we'll get them in Stellaris once they figure out how to balance them. I had a couple ideas in that regard today and wanted to hear some input.

Here is what I'm thinking:
- Doomsday weapons should require a certain strategic resource (or several) to build and maintain. If the player cannot meet this requirement due to losing a planet or mining station during wartime, the device will explode and inflict a lot of damage to any fleets, stations, and planets in the vicinity. Players will therefore want to store these devices somewhere far from their important colonies and stations.
- Doomsday weapons are small and fragile kamikaze ships that are expended after use. If you're using one against a well-defended enemy system, you'll want to send a fleet to run interference while it moves toward its target. They're also a priority target, so if a fleet gets into range they will engage it regardless of escorting ships.
- Doomsday weapons come in three tiers: light (think Titan laser), moderate (renders planets uninhabitable), and heavy (destroys all ships, stations, etc in a star system and leaves all planets uninhabitable). Obviously, the bigger ones are blisteringly expensive to build and maintain.
- Possessing these weapons generates threat toward other empires, using them doubles the threat (unless it's against the endgame crises). Obviously, the bigger the weapon, the higher the threat.
- Doomsday weapons become a fourth factor in relative empire power.
- Doomsday weapon use is a new empire police; choices are "Outlawed", "MAD" (cannot exceed rivals by more than 10%), and "Unrestricted".

What do you think? Any ideas of your own?
 
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Oscot

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Aside from your suggestion of "Heavy" weapon, all your suggestions of what doomsday weapons actually DO sound pretty terrible.
If you're gonna make me scrub around for resources at least make them good. The Heavy one is good because if you one-shot an Awakened Empire's fleet then boom, War In Heaven over, that actually has some macro-politico-historical ramifications.
But by the late game you wouldn't even notice the uninhabitability of a single planet, and anything you can do with a titan laser you can do better by building another 30k of fleet power, which is a trivial expense for a lategame empire.

Give me my ability to summon a Dimensional Horror (or even open a new Unbidden rift) in my enemy's home system and maybe now we're talkin'.
 
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Darkscis

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Aside from your suggestion of "Heavy" weapon, all your suggestions of what doomsday weapons actually DO sound pretty terrible.
If you're gonna make me scrub around for resources at least make them good. The Heavy one is good because if you one-shot an Awakened Empire's fleet then boom, War In Heaven over, that actually has some macro-politico-historical ramifications.
But by the late game you wouldn't even notice the uninhabitability of a single planet, and anything you can do with a titan laser you can do better by building another 30k of fleet power, which is a trivial expense for a lategame empire.

Give me my ability to summon a Dimensional Horror (or even open a new Unbidden rift) in my enemy's home system and maybe now we're talkin'.

I can almost guarantee you will notice if all of a sudden 2 or 3 of your top end energy producing planets are suddenly rendered uninhabitable and you can no longer support your fleet. Random little backwater 10 pop limit planets... sure, won't notice them.

I like both the OP's suggestions, and yours as well. Being able to open an Unbidden rift where you want it would be awesome.

My suggestion's would be more along the lines of giant EMP bombs and the likes - warp in a doomsday EMP bomb, detonate it and disable his fleet for X amount of time and then warp your fleet in and decimate it.
 
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BlackUmbrellas

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While I feel that speculating as towards specific mechanics is a bit pointless, here's my two cents:

I'd love to have a method of turning otherwise inhabitable planets into Tomb Worlds. Not Barren planets, mind- specifically Tomb Worlds, which could be terraformed back to regular habitability as usual. In a hypothetical "perfect version" of the game, I see that distinction allowing for high-tier wars of attrition- vast swaths of space reduced to irradiated balls of rock, requiring time and effort to reclaim. Doing so would obviously have rewards, and would mean that worlds hit by superweapons retain tactical relevance in the long-term instead of just becoming empty spaces on the map.

Hell, I'm sure you could optimize builds for it- an empire with uplifted roaches, extensive robotic forces, or the blessings of the Loop could force other species out of territory they wanted.
 
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Jerev

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While I feel that speculating as towards specific mechanics is a bit pointless, here's my two cents:

I'd love to have a method of turning otherwise inhabitable planets into Tomb Worlds. Not Barren planets, mind- specifically Tomb Worlds, which could be terraformed back to regular habitability as usual. In a hypothetical "perfect version" of the game, I see that distinction allowing for high-tier wars of attrition- vast swaths of space reduced to irradiated balls of rock, requiring time and effort to reclaim. Doing so would obviously have rewards, and would mean that worlds hit by superweapons retain tactical relevance in the long-term instead of just becoming empty spaces on the map.

Hell, I'm sure you could optimize builds for it- an empire with uplifted roaches, extensive robotic forces, or the blessings of the Loop could force other species out of territory they wanted.
I think that this would be the idea that is easiest to patch in. It would fit into already existing techs. But most people on this forum who asked for doomsday weapons wanted an option to destroy entire planets or at least turn them into barren worlds. So just irradiating them won't be enough for everybody.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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I think that this would be the idea that is easiest to patch in. It would fit into already existing techs. But most people on this forum who asked for doomsday weapons wanted an option to destroy entire planets or at least turn them into barren worlds. So just irradiating them won't be enough for everybody.
That one person's story about the game of Civilization they'd been playing where the world had stagnated into three competing superpower blocs constantly lobbing nukes at each other with such frequency that the ice caps melted and the territory between them turned into flooded marshes and perpetually-sabotaged roads never really left me and I hold that sort of end-state-through-game-design-and-features in an elevated spot in my heart.

People might want to be able to turn planets into Barren worlds, cool. There are mods that allow that right now. As a core game feature, I feel rather strongly that limiting it to creating Tomb Worlds would be a much more dynamic function that would result in more interesting gameplay.
 
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Trithemius

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Give me my ability to summon a Dimensional Horror (or even open a new Unbidden rift) in my enemy's home system and maybe now we're talkin'.

Urge to Horror-farm rising.
 

Jularbo Kizn

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That one person's story about the game of Civilization they'd been playing where the world had stagnated into three competing superpower blocs constantly lobbing nukes at each other with such frequency that the ice caps melted and the territory between them turned into flooded marshes and perpetually-sabotaged roads never really left me and I hold that sort of end-state-through-game-design-and-features in an elevated spot in my heart.

People might want to be able to turn planets into Barren worlds, cool. There are mods that allow that right now. As a core game feature, I feel rather strongly that limiting it to creating Tomb Worlds would be a much more dynamic function that would result in more interesting gameplay.

Sounds like every civ2 game I played :p Build up huge fleet of subs with nukes, hangarships with fighters/bombers, build up huge army of marines, humvees and tanks and then wage continental wars just to watch everything regress with more and more nukes levelling cities until the only thing that is cost effective is fanatics supported by the decade produced Atomic weapon to conquer rubble cities.

Would be very cool to have the possibility to end up with mad max styled tomb worlds barely scratching a living let alone producing corvettes to wage intergalactic wars for mineral stations. Maybe even have mad max style clothes for the animated pops living on these worlds :)
 
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