Ideal start dates and end dates for EU5?

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RagingJaws

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If I'm remembering right, it was said during an interview some time ago that any future EU5 game will not have more than one start date at launch. The reason being it was a lot of work setting up tags, provinces, and the like to reflect the period. Such work that could have been used elsewhere to polish the game more.
 

Foefaller

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End date I'm okay with. As wonky as EUIV's take on it is I kinda enjoy the Revolution as a finale to the game. What I do hope, however, is that it doesn't leave Vicky 3's start date as set in stone. While 1821 is a pretty good start date (Death of Napoleon, Mexican Independence, start of Simon Bolivar's Gran Colombia) I could also see an earlier start date in 1815, Nov. 1813, or even April 1802.
 
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pdx will join 3 games (ck-eu-vic) into one and it will be released towards 2025. there will be no ck3, eu5 or vic3. there will be a revolution!

That would be very interesting! Don't think trying to join three distinct games with completely different mechanics works. I can see EU4 becoming more like CK2 and vice versa, but I think Victoria is a different beast, and is all about econ management.
 
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Metz

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I wouldn't mind EU5 having a shorter play span if it meant including POPS, a dynamic global trade station, and complex demographics. Of course the game would need to transition nicely into Victoria 4.

Maybe in the future, the province system will be replaced and it will be a giant map with settlements and then open land to walk around in like in the Total War series and battles occur when two armies radius clash. This would help remove the issue of having big provinces be broken down but being unable to find a historic name for the new ones.

With this system we could see how devastation, draughts, and storms rock the land. Hows forests are getting cut down, mines getting exploited, land being enclosed.

By then the GPU would be able to handle it own.

The series is supposed to be a grand strategy game so you shouldn't be able to fly the game at speed 5+ pause and clear out 100 years or 1/4 of the game in a sitting.
 

makaramus

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I know I gonna trigger entire byzantium fan community but...
1453 :p

reason:Ottoman not having balanced start is troubling... byzantium players should start around south-west greece and aim to reconquer constantinapol.
by this starting date they will be instant threat to europe.
ofcourse this happens with better coalition mechanics
 

hashinshin

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I know I gonna trigger entire byzantium fan community but...
1453 :p

reason:Ottoman not having balanced start is troubling... byzantium players should start around south-west greece and aim to reconquer constantinapol.
by this starting date they will be instant threat to europe.
ofcourse this happens with better coalition mechanics
It's kinda amusing that Poland and Russia get updates to make their starts more consistent, but Ottomans who are LITERALLY THE NAME OF THE START DATE get nothing to make their start smoother. In fact, it's become LESS smooth because they no longer get insta-claims on Constantinople so they often go for stupider targets first.
 
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Vaximillian

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There is only one true start date, and that is the thirtieth of May, fourteen-fifty-three.
 
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Ottoman, dont need ptotected, the Europeans just need reasons not to war each other!

Id like a longer time period, would be interesting to see if a game from 1066-1821 could work!
 

makaramus

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Ottoman, dont need ptotected, the Europeans just need reasons not to war each other!

Id like a longer time period, would be interesting to see if a game from 1066-1821 could work!
thats why I said more stable start for ottomans in return of better coalition mechanics
if we do this you can still see rekted ottomans at early game because lost to massive catholic coalition of poland/hungary/austria/bohemia while not losing only because he attacked venice first
 

BuchiTaton

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pdx will join 3 games (ck-eu-vic) into one and it will be released towards 2025. there will be no ck3, eu5 or vic3. there will be a revolution!
Would love to see something like this!

Some common complaints about EU are:

- There is not much to do between wars.
The dynastic rpg drama of CK and the economic and politic strugle of Vic added to EU could let us have more fun and other strategies to win apart of being a warmonger.

- Yes world conquest! But a little more plausible.
Even now world conquest is not posible, but of course this is a game to have fun, so it must be possible on game. Now if the game start in middle age and end at very early 20th century every nation have much more time to pull out a more plausible World Conquest. Not just that, primitive tribal nations could have more feasible ways to pair with the powers in technology, and if the players start in regions like Middle East, India or China at middle age they could trigger an "***** Universalis" instead of Europe for some alter history fun.

- The only fun part of the game is at the beginning.
If you become strong in the early part of EU4 you are pretty much already unstoppable and many people dont even end some games because the lack of challenge. If the game portray the cultural, ideological, technological and economic changes from Middle Age to Industrial Age, as a player you must deal with things like the crisis of the Feudal system and the Church, The Enlightenment and the democratic revolutions or The Nationalist and proletatian uprisings. So you could feel how the world change and how your empire must adapt or fall apart.

About the ending date I think must be at start 1911 to include:
- Italo-Ethiopian War
- Second Boer War
- Russo-Japanese War
- Herero Wars
- Almost all Africa under European rule
- The start of Xinhai and Mexican revolutions

But before:
- WW1 and mechanized, aerial and chemical warfare
- First Balkan War
- October revolution
 

Cardolam

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1453, on the day the Ottomans conquered Constantinople.
But EU4 feels so good and with so much potential that EU5 will not be developed for a long time... only if Paradox was insane would it start to develop a new platform when the old one as still so much potential.
 

Bolt Thrower - Warmaster

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Ive played countless of games and one thing is for certain, there is never any reason for me to play much past 1600. For me then the game is over as ive already won (or gotten what I planned to do that playthrough). Which is exactly the same for me with the Civilization or Football manager series. There just comes a time where its rinse repeat.

I really love playing those first 150 years and for me, I would love a smaller timeframe = a better more focused game. Then expansions could build upon that timeframe, just as we see now with nations that lack any speciality etc. So 1444 (Perfect mix of emerging great nations) to 16XX.
 

TheDungen

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I'd say 1517 with the birth of the reformation. The idea of the state was born in the thirty years war the reformation is the buildup to that war.

The 15th century is much better represented by ck than by EU.

Then again everyhting after the thirty years war could be better represented by a vic dlc than by eu. Really EU just feels like a blander form of these games with less of what makes them interesting.

Perhaps it is better to let the EU franchise rest after eu4 and create anew franchise to fill the age span, one which is more about the rise of nations and less boardgame.
 

grandadmiralbob

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EU3 had 1453 as the originally start date and then it was moved to 1399 with the last expansions it had. It fit well with the theme of Early Modern Period colonization and empires as many historians place 1453 as the end of the Middle Ages with the fall of Byzantium (or successor state of the Western Roman Empire). Some place it at 1492 with the discovery of the New World for symbolic purposes, other historians round the date to 1500 for simplicity. The 1399 date allows more playtime and also the availability to play as Byzantium but it seems to be a bit to far back for a Europe of consolidated powers to form. The developers later regretted having 1399 as the start date.

EU4 starts in 1444. It's a balanced start because it takes place after the Battle of Varna which separates the personal union of Poland and Hungary. Having a Poland-Hungary in the early game could be lethal because it is in an area that is surrounded by much weaker powers. It also offers the option to play Byzantium, although historically, Constantinople fell 9 years later.

When deciding on a start date, certain factors influence the decision:

1) Balance of regional powers, especially in Europe where most players tend to play.
2) Early enough to maximize gameplay time, though this can fluctuate with the end date being changed.
3) Enough time to consolidate "continental homelands" before the colonial period.
4) Late enough to reduce a Balkanized Europe and to allow the AI to enable the creation of strong regional powers.
5) Late enough that there is at least some resemblance to historical or plausible outcomes up until the mid game.
6) For some players, the existence of the Byzantines is important, so anything after 1453 is unfavorable to them.

In my personal opinion, I like to see solid numbers or symbolic years. For me, 1444 is a spontaneous year that just happens to be ideal due to the outcome of the Battle of Varna and large consolidations of land for regional powers in Europe.

I would personally prefer to see 1448 to 1848 which allows a full and exact 400 years of gameplay. It still allows for the existence of Byzantium and it ends on the symbolic date of 1848 which is the Springtime of Nations or when nationalism in Europe finally reached its high point. It also grants more time to colonize more of Asia and Africa. It is unfortunate that the game ends in 1821 when most of Asia and Africa is historically barely even touched yet.
Some reasons why 1448 is not a bad idea. In 1445, Portugal sets up a Feitoria in Arguin which would help gear Portugal for a Africa trade hub start. In 1448, the Kalmar Union is dissolved, leaving Denmark, Norway, and Sweden as independent nations (although some might dislike this).

If we want to move back in time and avoid having the Poland-Hungary behemoth, we'd have to go before 1440. We could always have 1436 as the start date so it slides in with Victoria's start date of 1836. Lithuania is in the middle of a civil war with one side backed by the Teutonic Knights and the other backed by Poland. This could have interesting effects on what goes on in Eastern Europe as the game progresses. The Hussite Wars end and the rebellion in Sweden is put down.

Any other opinions on start and end dates?

I personally like the 1444 start date. I just wish that expanding out of an influence zone, or "region" gave more penalties. As of now, and for a while, Burgundy vs France is my favorite European war, but with one good victory, it becomes boring very quickly.
 
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thats why I said more stable start for ottomans in return of better coalition mechanics
if we do this you can still see rekted ottomans at early game because lost to massive catholic coalition of poland/hungary/austria/bohemia while not losing only because he attacked venice first

Well, 1444 is when the last crusade to Turkey was crushed, seems a decent place to start. The answer to the problem with coalitions like that won't go away if you move the start date. Also Ottomans have so many directions they can expand they could "just" go and guzzle all the important trade nodes in its trade network in Africa and Asia if it is blocked in Europe. The AI does not really do that, I noticed.