Ideal Army Compostions

[kgmi]

So I have watched all kinds of tutorials on that matter and everyone seems to have a little difference or preference when it comes to the optimal army compositons, especially late game.

So as a long time EU4 player I understand the concepts of combat width and getting 1:1 ratio of Infantry and Art in your army.

What I don't understand is, however, what should your army look like ones you've researched planes and tanks, and why is lower combat width a good thing in this game, while in EU4 a bigger combat width is preferred.

Right now I am making 30k stacks early game (4inf, 1 huss,1eng,4cannons)
For early 20th century I go with 60k stacks (8inf,2huss,2eng,8cannons)

So my problem is once i research tanks and planes, I have no idea what to replace or add to my armies when it comes to these 2 units, especially tanks since they count as artillery but dont have any support and fight in the front line while their stats dont seem that much better compared to my infantry/guards/cannons.

 

[Kovax]

The use of cavalry and engineers seems to vary. If you don't have any overlaps at the edges of combat, the only advantage of CAV is for recon, and one is all you need for that. If you have overlaps on both ends, two CAV can help, but I'd rather get that second CAV from a second army, not put 2 in each. 4 INF is hardly enough to call a front line, so I tend to build more INF than ART in my main armies (6 INF + 4 ART + CAV), and then pile on a bunch of evenly matched (1:1 INF and ART, with no CAV) "support" armies, or else build pure ART armies that I attach my reserves to. The main purpose of ENG is against fortifications, and if I'm NOT engaged in reducing forts, I don't need the ENG, so why should I put weak units in my combat armies, rather than sending them in individually to support the sieges after combat?

Basically, it's not about how the individual army does against another individual army in some isolated arena matchup, it's about how they add up as pieces of the bigger picture to win a major battle.

 

[WankoStankins]

Armies of 13 (or 14, look in the defines I forget) units achieve the max sieging speed. But because of the way recon and siege work (10% of the army needs to be a recon unit and 10% needs to be a siege unit to get full effects) I like to use stacks of 10.

So I use 1 hussar, 4 infantry, 4 artillery, and then when engineers are discovered 1 engineer. Lategame you can switch hussars and engineers with aeroplanes and tanks but I normally don't waste time microing that.

That setup means there are 5 frontline units and 4-5 support, so often your support units will go to the front when the infantry take casualties. So maybe 1 hussar, 5 infantry. 3 artillery and 1 engineer is better, but I haven't bothered to find out if that is better.

 

[kgmi]

Armies of 13 (or 14, look in the defines I forget) units achieve the max sieging speed. But because of the way recon and siege work (10% of the army needs to be a recon unit and 10% needs to be a siege unit to get full effects) I like to use stacks of 10.

So I use 1 hussar, 4 infantry, 4 artillery, and then when engineers are discovered 1 engineer. Lategame you can switch hussars and engineers with aeroplanes and tanks but I normally don't waste time microing that.

That setup means there are 5 frontline units and 4-5 support, so often your support units will go to the front when the infantry take casualties. So maybe 1 hussar, 5 infantry. 3 artillery and 1 engineer is better, but I haven't bothered to find out if that is better.

So does this mean if I had 2 hussars and 2 engineers in my late game 60k army, I replace my 2 hussars with 2 planes and the 2 engineers with 2 tanks?

 

[thedarkendstar]

5 inf 5 art 2 engineers and 2 dragoons have been my go-to until late game when I make my stacks larger.

 

[Fulmen]

The optimal early-game stack for attacking in theory is:

4 CUI
1 HUS
5 ART
(30k)

However INF surpasses CUI by the time you get breech-loaded rifles. Also with a 1:1 ratio of frontline and support units, you're likely to have ART pushed to the front as your first row takes casualties, so my early-game stack tends to look like this:

5 CUI
1 HUS
1 DRA
5 ART
(36k)

Once I've inorganic chemistry and breech-loaded rifles, I do:

6 GUA
1 HUS
1 DRA
5 ART
1 ENG
(42k)

And keep building up from there as supply limit grows. But be mindful that combat width lowers throughout the game. So adjust accordingly.

IIRC for late-game armies the theoretical best is:

10 ARM
10 AIR
(60k)

EDIT: See my post below for late-game stacks.

For purely defensive armies you should replace GUA with INF and drop out REC and ENG units.

Some notes about this strategy:

-CUI are expensive and become worse than INF around 1850. You might not be able to afford them and replacing them might be a hassle especially in multiplayer.

-GUA are also expensive and INF might be a wiser choice depending on nation and whether or not you expect to be more on the defensive or offensive with the stack in question.

-From the Wiki: "Recon is also used by an attacker to reduce the dig in value of that defending army, which is DIVIDED by the recon of the unit with the highest recon in the attacking army. After the first round, every time the attacker rolls." Therefore it's better to use 1 HUS and 1 DRA instead of 2 HUS, as DRA has better combat stats and you only care about the REC value from the HUS and 100% REC efficiency in >30k stacks, thus requiring 2 REC units.

 

[grimkm]

Not sure how optimal, but I run stacks of 4 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 engineer when researched, and 2 cav. Normally hussar and dragoon. They've served me quite well. I used to run a 1:1 ratio of infantry..but these 27k stacks are quite mobile.

 

[Kovax]

Armies of 13 or 14 units may achieve the highest sieging speed, but armies of (2 to 4)xINF+ENG+CAV will suffer little or no attrition in the early game and still siege at a reasonable pace. Armies of 13 or 14 units will bleed manpower like a faucet before you've researched the techs to boost how many units you can support and reduced attrition rates. Late game is a much different story than the early part.

I'd rather bring up an ENG and CAV, and attach them to a group of reduced-ORG conscripts pulled back to conduct sieges, while my regular army and fully organized conscripts continue to crush the enemy. Once the opposing army is gone, it doesn't matter all that much how long it takes to siege a province; I've got years to do it.

 

[Woifee]

Not sure if good but I like it.
4 Inf
4 Art
1 Hus
1 Dra

Later I add 2 planes and 2 Tanks. When all armies hav 2 tanks I add to more. Repeat.

I like tanks.


It's important to have equal numbers an all stacks the same. Order.

 

[Kovax]

It's important to have equal numbers an all stacks the same. Order.

It's important to have all stacks of the same function the same, but to have several different types of stacks for special purposes. That's a higher order of Order.

 

[mergele]

Note that tanks have less siege than engineers, so I usually completly skipp tanks and instead replace the hussar with inf and one arty with a plane.

 

[Fulmen]

Note that tanks have less siege than engineers, so I usually completly skipp tanks and instead replace the hussar with inf and one arty with a plane.

Looking at the Wiki on land units, for 1919 tech levels the optimal seems to be as follows:

Attack & siege stack:

10 ARM
7 ART
1 ENG
2 AIR
(60k)

Pure attack stack:

10 ARM
8 ART
2 AIR
(60k)

Obviously you might want to replace some ART with extra ARM in case of losses, so your ART/AIR doesn't get pushed to the front row.

Pure siege stack:

17 INF
1 CAV
1 ENG
1 AIR
(60k)

Pure defence stack:

20 AIR
(60k)

This one's a little weird and unrealistic, because IRL planes alone can't hold a frontline against a modern army, especially so in WWI.

 

[Telcharinogrod]

Pure defence stack:

20 AIR
(60k)

This one's a little weird and unrealistic, because IRL planes alone can't hold a frontline against a modern army, especially so in WWI.

According to the wiki, this last one no longer works in patch 3.04, due to their discipline getting nerfed into the ground, and them taking huge casualties in front-line combat as a result. Which is a lot more sensible.

 

[thedarkendstar]

According to the wiki, this last one no longer works in patch 3.04, due to their discipline getting nerfed into the ground, and them taking huge casualties in front-line combat as a result. Which is a lot more sensible.

Sadly I don't know about the late game I never get there because I usually win before it happens.

Basically, I keep the starting armies unless I have an early war and once supply limits are high enough I go 42 stacks 5 infantry/guard 5 art 2 dragoons 2 engineers the dragoons are front line so it helps protect the arty they have always served me well.As the game goes on I tend to add more infantry and Arty.

I know some people like to mobilize their reserves for infantry but I don't like mobilizing it hurts the economy gets my workers killed so I like to get my country to 5 percent soldier pops and maintain a large standing army so I almost never need to mobilize.

 

[Kovax]

I know some people like to mobilize their reserves for infantry but I don't like mobilizing it hurts the economy gets my workers killed so I like to get my country to 5 percent soldier pops and maintain a large standing army so I almost never need to mobilize.

Agreed that getting your workers killed is a bad idea, particularly the craftsmen that you've spent the last couple of years trying to increase. That's why I separate out the craftsmen from the rest of the mobilized reserves, and have them garrison a few of the more important provinces while the farmers and miners support the army more directly. I prefer to use my standing army to fight the opposing army, and use the reserves mainly for sieges, but I'll generally throw the reserves into a combat if necessary, rather than lose a major battle. Not mobilizing against a large opponent that does mobilize can get pretty nasty, particularly if some other GP decides that you're suddenly vulnerable, and I believe that mobilizing increases your military score slightly, to make attacking you look a bit less attractive to the AI.

In a couple of campaigns, I've built a handful of groups of something like 1xCAV+4xART, and then attached a group of another 4-6 freshly mobilized reserve units to each of those during wartime. While my regulars are breaking the opposing regulars, those combined arms Artillery/reservist stacks are sufficient to wipe the floor with the enemy's unsupported reservists, and then I can concentrate on the business of sieging without a lot of rude interruptions.

As pointed out by another poster, by the beginning of the 20th Century, I've either blobbed to the point where it doesn't matter too much what I throw into the field, or else I've already abandoned the game because the outcome is clearly inevitable, one way or the other. I have very little experience with tank/plane armies, because they weren't really necessary by the time they became available.

 

[Telcharinogrod]

I prefer to use my standing army to fight the opposing army, and use the reserves mainly for sieges, but I'll generally throw the reserves into a combat if necessary, rather than lose a major battle.

I try to do this, too, but usually the enemy slips a few stacks around them and they end up fighting anyway...

 

[qer]

I normally use 5 inf + 4 Art+ 1 Eng+2 Dragons as the go to stack. Eng have support,so i prefer then to dont be on the front. As the game go on, i usually add more Art and INf, in equal numbers. replacing all Inf to Guards units help for offensive armies, but I prefer much more to destroy the Ai on defense as it is far more efficient. Late game adding planes remove any need for Cav, and i tend to add two to four armours to my stacks. Generally speaking what you want is to maximize your use of Art, as it is the most important unit of the game. Also I tend to use satcks on pairs or bigger groups, concentrating them for combat. Also pure Art armies aren´t a bad idea if you plan to mobilize

 

[MrPoKa]

I usally use for each 3 inf = 1 Drag/1Hus + 1 Art , I mean , most of the time when I play vic , i like to play with Brazil or Sweden , but this composition are so damm useless after 1880 , and i start to increase the number of Art to +1 or +2 to be more powerfull in ''fire pipes'' , i try to make a Army in between of 30k or 42k and try to switch some inf to guards or switch 1 inf/guard to engineer to try to maximise the damage