IDea War of the Roses DLC

[ahk528]

CKII is above all else a game of dynastic managment. The War of the Roses and the politics of that era seem much better modelled by CKII than EUIV.
A War of the Roses DLC would add some later bookmarks and an extension. And for the features side would focus on dynasty mechanics, especially rivalrys.
Outside of the War of the Roses itself it could allow for the inclusion of a few other interseting events-
*Emergence of the Spanish Inquisition
*The end of the 100 years war.
*The 13 years' war between Poland and the Teutonic Order.
*The Ottomon's pushing into Eastern Europe.
*Sonni Ali uniting the Songhai Empire.
*Vlad Ţepeş
*Unification of Spain
*Stephen the Great
*Burgundinian Wars
*Muscovy conquering Novogrod
I could go on with my other ideas but that is a rough out line of what I thought and I'm interested to hear other's thoughts.
I feel like, in Britain at least, the end of the Wars of the Roses is as close as you can get to a good cut-off between 'dark age' Britain and the more modern statist way the country came to be ran in Tudor times and onwards. The war itself, it's 'cast' and the reasons behind it seem like the exact type of story that ckii is perfect to create.
I feel like EUIV robbed us of some of the events that define and end the "ckii era" haha.

 

[Haccoude]

CKII is above all else a game of dynastic managment. The War of the Roses and the politics of that era seem much better modelled by CKII than EUIV.
A War of the Roses DLC would add some later bookmarks and an extension. And for the features side would focus on dynasty mechanics, especially rivalrys.
Outside of the War of the Roses itself it could allow for the inclusion of a few other interseting events-
*Emergence of the Spanish Inquisition
*The end of the 100 years war.
*The 13 years' war between Poland and the Teutonic Order.
*The Ottomon's pushing into Eastern Europe.
*Sonni Ali uniting the Songhai Empire.
*Vlad Ţepeş
*Unification of Spain
*Stephen the Great
*Burgundinian Wars
*Muscovy conquering Novogrod
I could go on with my other ideas but that is a rough out line of what I thought and I'm interested to hear other's thoughts.
I feel like, in Britain at least, the end of the Wars of the Roses is as close as you can get to a good cut-off between 'dark age' Britain and the more modern statist way the country came to be ran in Tudor times and onwards. The war itself, it's 'cast' and the reasons behind it seem like the exact type of story that ckii is perfect to create.
I feel like EUIV robbed us of some of the events that define and end the "ckii era" haha.

The CK2 Era is the High Middle Ages roughly from 1090-1290, not the Middle Ages in their entirety. While the start and end dates for CK2 cover a larger amount of history than this, the actual mechanics of gameplay doesn't. The War of the Roses took place in the Late Middle Ages/Early Renaissance, an era which is currently not covered by any Paradox games.

 

[darthfanta]

The CK2 Era is the High Middle Ages roughly from 1090-1290, not the Middle Ages in their entirety. While the start and end dates for CK2 cover a larger amount of history than this, the actual mechanics of gameplay doesn't. The War of the Roses took place in the Late Middle Ages/Early Renaissance, an era which is currently not covered by any Paradox games.

It's covered by EUIV.

 

[zharliette]

It's covered by EUIV.

I think what he means is that it isn't covered with mechanics befitting to this timeperiod. EU does it, but as far I understand, EU mechanics don't really simulate that time very well. It should really be something between EU and CK, in that, while it's still about dynasties and people, it's also about nations and politics.

 

[darthfanta]

I think what he means is that it isn't covered with mechanics befitting to this timeperiod. EU does it, but as far I understand, EU mechanics don't really simulate that time very well. It should really be something between EU and CK, in that, while it's still about dynasties and people, it's also about nations and politics.

War of Roses is actually an event in EUIV.Not sure paradox would try to cover the same thing twice.

 

[Talq]

Its not so much 'covered by EU4', but you are playing in territory where CK2 is really straining to cover it well (especially the increasing importance of gunpowder and cannon)

 

[zharliette]

War of Roses is actually an event in EUIV.Not sure paradox would try to cover the same thing twice.

I get that. What I'm saying is, that war of the roses is sort of a complex thing and to model it properly, you would need actual characters and dynasties, like in CK, but on the other hand, CK mechanics alone aren't enough. I guess the moral of the story is, that if you have so much history going on, there must be generalisations, because otherwise you'd need to make dozens of games that are specially tailored for each particular time period and that would be, well, time consuming and not worth a bother. I'm actually fine with it being in EU. I don't think CK can currently cope with renaissance. But a DLC focusing on endgame and renaissance would be most welcome. In fact, really anything that gives a feeling of time actually passing and things changing. Currently when I play I feel more and more, that the game is about a dystopical scenario of what happens when one moment in time endures forever. When I start in the 8th century, I play 700 years in the 8th century. If I start in 11th century, I play 400 years of 11th century and so on.

 

[darthfanta]

I get that. What I'm saying is, that war of the roses is sort of a complex thing and to model it properly, you would need actual characters and dynasties, like in CK, but on the other hand, CK mechanics alone aren't enough. I guess the moral of the story is, that if you have so much history going on, there must be generalisations, because otherwise you'd need to make dozens of games that are specially tailored for each particular time period and that would be, well, time consuming and not worth a bother. I'm actually fine with it being in EU. I don't think CK can currently cope with renaissance. But a DLC focusing on endgame and renaissance would be most welcome. In fact, really anything that gives a feeling of time actually passing and things changing. Currently when I play I feel more and more, that the game is about a dystopical scenario of what happens when one moment in time endures forever. When I start in the 8th century, I play 700 years in the 8th century. If I start in 11th century, I play 400 years of 11th century and so on.

So what kinds of things do you want to see end game?I really don't think paradox will spend the time on a single civil war in one of many kingdoms unless there's a lot of things players can do there.Knowing paradox,they'd probably just cover renaissance by having a series of events. The only substantial addition is probably artillery.

 

[zharliette]

So what kinds of things do you want to see end game?I really don't think paradox will spend the time on a single civil war on one of many kingdoms unless there's a lot of things players can do there.Knowing paradox,they'd probably just cover renaissance by having a series of events. The only substantial addition is probably guns.

Well, there could be some mechanics to model such dynastic wars in general, not just war of the roses specifically, since thats out of the timeframe anyway. But you know, 100 years war for example. I don't really imagine how it could be done, but general idea would be to model dynastic infighting when there aren't any direct and undisputable heirs. Faction system is quite alright in dealing with laws and general civil wars, but I think claims warrant a different mechanic. Perhaps civil wars akin to those in AGOT mod, where once it breaks out, everybody gets a chance to decide which side they'll support, maybe even choose a different claimant altogether and make it a three-way war and so on.

About renaissance and time periods...Somebody suggested that the interface could change at some point to illustrate the transition from romanesque architecture to gothic one. It really isn't much and would probably be too much of a hassle, but it would certainly make me happier. And well, events are fine by me. The game basically consist of events so they would be enough for me to give a bit of period flavour here and there. To mark important people that lived, perhaps make them courtiers and so on. Not unlike in EU4. I mean, wouldn't it be cool to have, for example, Thomas Aquinas pop up and become your courtier? We already have Jean d'Arc so there's certainly a precedent for such things already.

 

[Arko]

The CK2 Era is the High Middle Ages roughly from 1090-1290, not the Middle Ages in their entirety. While the start and end dates for CK2 cover a larger amount of history than this, the actual mechanics of gameplay doesn't. The War of the Roses took place in the Late Middle Ages/Early Renaissance, an era which is currently not covered by any Paradox games.

yes, it is why CK2 starts in 769...

It's covered by EUIV.

honestly those are 2 very different games.

 

[Azarias59]

They would need to revisit mechanics for such a dlc. Feudalism is not = to Bastard Feudalism, which was how things worked during the War of the Roses.

 

[Ruwaard]

Its not so much 'covered by EU4', but you are playing in territory where CK2 is really straining to cover it well (especially the increasing importance of gunpowder and cannon)

Hence I agree with zharliette. To do this particular period justice you need something in between CK II and EU IV. CK II does a much better job a depicting the dynastic element, which in EU IV is rather abstract.

I also agree with Arko, if CK II can start in 769, which BTW IMHO CK II is really straining to cover it well, then it can also cover the war of the Roses. Though personally I wouldn't go beyond 1492 with CK II.