Idea VS: Years of Separatism or National Unrest

[Lazuline]

Idea VS Score Votes:

[ 5 ] Years of Separatism -10
[ 4 ] National Unrest -2

==== Original Post ===

Hello! We have little office debate going on right now and I wanted to gather inputs from the community on which idea is better. Presently, we're debating which is better: Years of Separatism -10 or National Unrest -2.

Assuming you had a custom nation and you can only get one or the other, which one will you get and why? Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the create poll option in this forum.

Years of Separatism -10 effectively gives -5 Local Unrest to any newly occupied territory. It will also ensure that you will only have to worry about Separatist rebels for at most 20 years. Likewise, after the initial (if at all) uprising, chances are, the unrest from separatism will be lowered to a degree that there won't be a 2nd uprising anymore since the Recently Rebelled modifier lasts for 10 years / 50% of the remaining separatism.

National Unrest -2 is a global modifier that can help keep all of your territories in check. We find it helps in lowering autonomy as well as it can assist in offsetting the +10 unrest from lowered autonomy. Also, this has a more permanent effect to it given its global reach and it is active 100% of the time.

What do you all think?

 

[Rocketskates]

national unrest imo, theres usually no second uprising anyway and it also helps with overextension, lack of stab, religion, unaccepted culture, duno if a custom nation can get events that possibly increase national unrest

 

[pttaylor]

Personally I prefer years of separatism; I can't remember the last time I had a revolt in provinces that weren't separatist, and the years of separatism reduction should combine with Humanism to give you no revolts in conquered territories whatsoever. Also, if you want to trigger the Court and Country disaster in the Age of Absolutism, too many National Unrest modifiers can actually make that rather difficult

 

[erneiz_hyde]

Years of separatism hands down. It is THE largest source of unrest with very few ways to reduce it. It's what made Humanist very powerful, among other things.

 

[Mrkew]

Only one of them will help when you take 200% OE. It's clear.

 

[Reman]

My vote goes to national unrest. Years of separatism is great and is definitely worth taking wherever you can get it. However, -unrest goes a long way in helping keep your country together when you go to obscene OE values. Every -1 unrest means another 20% of OE you can comfortably rest at.

Furthermore, if you can get up to -15 unrest through various sources, you can stop worrying about Separatism Sentiment. Since the event can pop in any of your provinces, it can be really annoying to deal with when it spawns rebels in Siberia or on some island you control. Separatists in newly conquered territories are annoying, but are confined to one general area and can be dealt with by local armies.

 

[Dominion]

Both are worthless on their own.
These modifiers are never worth jack unless you stack them.

When you annex a province you will have one uprising and a minor chance of getting a second one. Years of separatism and unrest -2 both reduce the chance of the second uprising minimally.
If you throw one or two more reductions on top of that you only get a single uprising.
After that your next step is no uprising in accepted culture, same religion provinces after reducing autonomy. We're already stacking a lot in this example because that's how big the gap is.

People have a distorted view of unrest and sep modifiers. Unless you grab a bunch of them you won't see a difference.

Best you can get out of it is more OE, but at that point you already are having multiple effects at the same time, oftentimes going to double digit negative unrest. Lategame is lategame.

In a normal scenario the uprising is hitting you 2 years after annexing sth or 3 years after. Doesn't make a difference. It's still coming.

Stack them or ignore them.

EDIT: To react to Yuri's comment, he thinks that's how it works because Humanist itself stacks -unrest and -separatism. If it was only -separatism it would even be worse for him because rebels take longer to pop but they still do, which means you're either already far away or just can't leave the area for longer than without -sep.

It's always a strategic decision and needs to be stacked if you really want no uprising.

 

[PrimeYuri]

- year of separatism. With it you don't have to keep a army close to freshly conquered land which can be very annoying if you are fighting on very long distances (which you want to do to don't have AE problems).

 

[bly08]

Years of separatism, it's not close at all.

 

[Mr. G]

Year of separatism. Then you can avoid revolts by having troops drilling the province you just took.

 

[Rikissa]

National unrest, but I agree that both modifiers are only useful if you stack them with other similar modifiers

If rebels pop, I'd rather have them pop as soon as possible

 

[Lazuline]

Thank you for the responses. In response to stacking, I think it goes without saying that you'll want to work towards addressing the rebel problem anyway. So assuming you will work towards that plus the overall strategic gameplay considerations (OE, absolutism, etc), which of these two will help more is the question (assuming you only have 1 slot left).

It is surprising that as of now, the score stands at:

Idea VS Score Votes:

[ 5 ] Years of Separatism -10
[ 4 ] National Unrest -2

At this point, there doesn't seem to be a clear winner yet.

 

[Dominion]

There won't be a clear winner. It's like asking if diplo or influence is better.

Situationally you will prefer taking one earlier than the other, but either is extremely strong on its own and you'll end up having both of them anyways.

 

[Rikissa]

[edit] I was wrong about game mechanics

 

[Mr. G]

There won't be a clear winner. It's like asking if diplo or influence is better.

Situationally you will prefer taking one earlier than the other, but either is extremely strong on its own and you'll end up having both of them anyways.

Influence is better.

 

[hrimhari]

So, does this mean the offensive/humanist policy should be -10 and not -5?

(I mean, having it as 10 would be very rude when combined with conqueror trait. No separatism at all, yes please. But I have always felt that a mere -5 is a bit small. Maybe -5 with something else?)

 

[Mortheim]

Years of separatism at any day. You can conquer and then conquer some more.

 

[PhoenixG]

Years of Separatism is more a short term unrest reduction. Since after 30 years (or 20 years if you have the reduction) it's basicly useless. While national unrest is focus on long term, as you always have it.

Unless you expand rapidly or want to culture convert fast, years of separatism is better. All other cases national unrest is better.

 

[De_Genius]

Year of Separatism for me.
-Unrest is nice in core provinces when dealing with angry estates, bad events or war exhaustion, but being able to faster be able to culture change a province and not bother with unrest at all means more to me. The Unrest can be achieved in many other cases with advisors, legitimacy, etc., where YoS is hard to come by.

 

[Cataphract887]

They are both awesome, but as noted by others already a single bonus to either will have little effect. Whichever one you select, you would still be best off picking Humanist anyway for the most convenient gameplay.

The arguments based on going over the OE limits are quite strange to me, however. With Absolutism and other additions in recent years to Administrative Efficiency I see no reason to ever go over the OE limit anyway.