Idea: Vengeance Casus Belli

[Mightypeon]

Hi,

I recently had the following situation:

Starting as Flanders, I switched my fealthy towards the HRE, founded the Frisian kingdom and eventually expanded it into Lotharingia. My genius king was the leader of the lower crown authority faction (to the best of my knowledge, this is not just cause for imprisonment), and I had ok relations with the Emperor anyway.

Then, out of the blue, he imprisoned and then oublietted my king, who nearly immidiatly died.

While the heir was competent, the short reign penalties made it difficult to immidiatly go to war to gain vengeance. Eventually I just waited 10 years and got my revenge later, but I think that a vengeance CB could be easy to implement:
-if someone executed a family member
-you get a vengeance CB that allows you to kill or capture him
-while doing a vengeance war, you get a relations bonus with your vasalls if they were either also vasalls of whoever was executed or family members of whoever was exectued.
-Successfully performing such a vengeance should reap sizeable prestige and vasall relations boni largely.

 

[Agrippa43]

The Pope would not approve

 

[Divi]

The Pope would not approve

Unless it was the pope's family

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

This is important IMO mainly when there's an international conspiracy to end the line of a ruling family. If the King of France tried to kill the Kaiser's children or the Kaiser himself and was found out, the Kaiser SHOULD have a CB to go to war with him... and what? I could imagine it as a "press all claims + monetary reparations + abdication" CB, where if you win you get all the territory you (yourself) had claims on, plus a very high reparations, plus forcing the King to kick the crown to his heir.

It would be commesurate to the gains the French King could have had by destabilising the HRE via assassinations, and it's improve the depth of international relations.

 

[Kimberly]

This is important IMO mainly when there's an international conspiracy to end the line of a ruling family. If the King of France tried to kill the Kaiser's children or the Kaiser himself and was found out, the Kaiser SHOULD have a CB to go to war with him... and what? I could imagine it as a "press all claims + monetary reparations + abdication" CB, where if you win you get all the territory you (yourself) had claims on, plus a very high reparations, plus forcing the King to kick the crown to his heir.

It would be commesurate to the gains the French King could have had by destabilising the HRE via assassinations, and it's improve the depth of international relations.

That seems a bit excessive, in terms of rewards. I think it would make more sense to have a big prestige gain, and the current leader abdicates and becomes your prisoner. Pressing all claims would make it hugely powerful.

 

[theStormWeaver]

I would have loved this when my Genius Strong son (nephew?) was captured while spying in Caithness and was thrown into the Oubliette. I'm still ticked I couldn't ransom him (tried his diplomacy screen, and the count's, the duke's, and the king's; no dice) and would have liked to use a Vengeance Casus Belli against the Count of Caithness. I did assassinate him then take his county as part of a de jure claim (King of Scotland am I), but the roleplaying opportunities for a Vengeance CB are wonderful.

 

[Kimberly]

I would have loved this when my Genius Strong son (nephew?) was captured while spying in Caithness and was thrown into the Oubliette. I'm still ticked I couldn't ransom him (tried his diplomacy screen, and the count's, the duke's, and the king's; no dice) and would have liked to use a Vengeance Casus Belli against the Count of Caithness. I did assassinate him then take his county as part of a de jure claim (King of Scotland am I), but the roleplaying opportunities for a Vengeance CB are wonderful.

That makes no sense, though. Imprisoning someone for spying is perfectly legitimate, so you shouldn't get a vengeance casus belli--it was a righteous imprisonment. More importantly, if you declare war on a person holding your family member prisoner, they are going to be executed (being a member of an enemy realm and all).

 

[theStormWeaver]

But he was already dead when I declared war. In fact, you can't declare war if you have a close family member in their court/dungeon, its simply impossible.

Besides, when did Vengeance make sense?
But, from a gameplay standpoint, you make an excellent point.