Idea - Unorthodox Use of Trait Pairs

[unmerged(2456)]

Since trait pairs when they fire to add one replace the old one and since paradox seems to want to keep certain traits exclusive, why not use trait pairings more broadly for game purposes and make cut the loading and cpu resource time?

FE: Stress_symptom and Depression have been made mutulally exclusive.

So to, right now, has Crusader and Hetetic (As well as Crusader and Ecommunicated should be),

Then their are all those illnesses...

 

[Barkdreg]

great idea!

 

[Spruce]

yeah, I proposed something similar concerning the illness traits.

f.e. all those deformation traits - basicly they are all the same - someone with a deformed part of the body ... why does a clubfooth and a hunchback deserve special treatment,

same goes for lisp and stutter - speaking disorders ...

great idea - new perspectives

 

[unmerged(5822)]

A few thoughts regarding Lustful, Indulgent, Temperate, Chaste and Energetic...

1: Indulgent is supposed to cover a desire for all pleasures in life, including sexual appetite, yet we have the Lustful trait as well. I don't think we really need two traits for carnal activists, so these two could be merged without the game really losing anything (the combined trait would preferably be Indulgent, but with the symbol of Lustful). Similarly, Chaste could be seen as a specific variant of Temperate.

2: I think it would also make sense if the Lazy/Energetic trait pair was merged with the Indulgent/Temperate trait pair, since Indulgent is really the opposite lifestyle to someone who is dedicated to his work (Energetic). With such a merger, it would be reasonable and possible to give Indulgent +1 health and +1 fertility while also giving all the associated work penalties, while the opposite would be true for Energetic (all work and no play makes the king a dull boy). Perhaps Indulgent could also give +1 prestige (for all the parties and adventures) but -1 piety (you don't get lots of brownie points with the church for that kind of behaviour, really) while Energetic would give the opposite effect. That would sort of put Temperate in the middle. Dunno if it would be possible to have a trait triplet (with Temperate as the non-modifying "middle road"), which would look the best in characters, so I suppose Temperate could just go away.

(and perhaps, if some diseases are removed, we could introduce a new Impotence disease?)
(and perhaps an "Adulterer" mark as well, somewhat similar to Kinslayer but with different effects?)

 

[unmerged(2456)]

A few thoughts regarding Lustful, Indulgent, Temperate, Chaste and Energetic...

1: Indulgent is supposed to cover a desire for all pleasures in life, including sexual appetite, yet we have the Lustful trait as well. I don't think we really need two traits for carnal activists, so these two could be merged without the game really losing anything (the combined trait would preferably be Indulgent, but with the symbol of Lustful). Similarly, Chaste could be seen as a specific variant of Temperate.

2: I think it would also make sense if the Lazy/Energetic trait pair was merged with the Indulgent/Temperate trait pair, since Indulgent is really the opposite lifestyle to someone who is dedicated to his work (Energetic). With such a merger, it would be reasonable and possible to give Indulgent +1 health and +1 fertility while also giving all the associated work penalties, while the opposite would be true for Energetic (all work and no play makes the king a dull boy). Perhaps Indulgent could also give +1 prestige (for all the parties and adventures) but -1 piety (you don't get lots of brownie points with the church for that kind of behaviour, really) while Energetic would give the opposite effect. That would sort of put Temperate in the middle. Dunno if it would be possible to have a trait triplet (with Temperate as the non-modifying "middle road"), which would look the best in characters, so I suppose Temperate could just go away.

(and perhaps, if some diseases are removed, we could introduce a new Impotence disease?)
(and perhaps an "Adulterer" mark as well, somewhat similar to Kinslayer but with different effects?)

That is going above and beyond by far what i had in mind. Specifically i know that won't happen becuase FE, its possible to be both temperate and lustful.

My idea here also did not claim to remove anything either.

All i'm simply saying is that many events have remove this trait then add this trait or vise versa for the same thing with no exceptions made and the trait pairs could be used there.

That is far beyond what i had in mind and i really don't want to get this clouded up with other ideas until atleast MrT has a chance to look at it.

 

[unmerged(31117)]

Phoenix.

Chaste and Lustful are qualitative- determining how faithful the character is to their spouse and their respect for marriage in general.
Temperate and Indulgant are quantative- How much the character has sex.

Therefore it is possible to have a temperate/lustful person, someone that doesn't have sex much but who is also unfaithful to his/her spouse.

Similerily it's possible to have an indulgant/chaste person, a person that has sex lot's but wouldn't dream of cheating on his/her spouse.

 

[Grosshaus]

Removing or creating new traits is a no-no, too big a change. Let´s stick to ideas that can actually be implemented.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Since trait pairs when they fire to add one replace the old one and since paradox seems to want to keep certain traits exclusive, why not use trait pairings more broadly for game purposes and make cut the loading and cpu resource time?

Nice idea. Want to make a draft suggestion on what traits should be mutually exclusive on trait-file level? (in addition to trait-pairs of course)

 

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illness
antithesis = { intestinal_worm = yes leper = yes plagueinfested = yes pneumonia = yes }
intestinal_worm
antithesis = { illness = yes leper = yes plagueinfested = yes pneumonia = yes }
leper
antithesis = { illness = yes intestinal_worm = yes plagueinfested = yes pneumonia = yes }
plagueinfested
antithesis = { illness = yes intestinal_worm = yes leper = yes pneumonia = yes }
pneumonia
antithesis = { illness = yes intestinal_worm = yes leper = yes plagueinfested = yes }
stress_symptom
antithesis = { depression = yes maniac = yes schizofrenia = yes }
depression
antithesis = { stress_symptom = yes maniac = yes schizofrenia = yes }
maniac
antithesis = { stress_symptom = yes depression = yes schizofrenia = yes }
schizofrenia
antithesis = { stress_symptom = yes depression = yes maniac = yes }
hertetic
antithesis = { crusader = yes }
crusader
antithesis = { heretic = yes excommunicated = yes }
excommunicated
antithesis = { crusader = yes }
canonized
antithesis = { saint = yes }
saint
antithesis = { canonized = yes }
inbred
antithesis = { clubfooted = yes harelip = yes hunchback = yes lisp = yes }
clubfooted
antithesis = { inbred = yes }
harelip
antithesis = { inbred = yes }
hunchback
antithesis = { inbred = yes }
lisp
antithesis = { inbred = yes }

 

[unmerged(5822)]

Nitpicking: you spelled "heretic" as "hertetic" (would not be so fun if you copied it just like that into the game files..?)

 

[unmerged(21937)]

You are supposed to be able to get Intestinal Worm in addition to any other illness, so it should not be antithesis to anything.

Depression may be obtained in addition to Maniac (Manic-Depressive event), so these two should not be antithesis to each other.

Also I think Inbred should be obtainable by people with other birth defects.

EDIT: Otherwise they seem good. Though I think some of the education traits could use some antithesis as well.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

You are supposed to be able to get Intestinal Worm in addition to any other illness, so it should not be antithesis to anything.

Well i can't see why...could explain to me? I only ever get by "illness worsens event" same as other illnesses.

Depression may be obtained in addition to Maniac (Manic-Depressive event), so these two should not be antithesis to each other.

okay.

Also I think Inbred should be obtainable by people with other birth defects.

Getting inbred is pretty serious, its basically those traits plus some.

EDIT: Otherwise they seem good. Though I think some of the education traits could use some antithesis as well.

I thought this was already done as it corrected the rare dual education phenomenia.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well i can't see why...could explain to me? I only ever get by "illness worsens event" same as other illnesses.

Of course you do, that's how it's intended. But what I mean is, when you already have an Intestinal Worm, you may proceed to get another Illness trait and have that develop to say Pneumonia later on.

Getting inbred is pretty serious, its basically those traits plus some.

Well yeah, it is. -5 to all stats, except health and fertility. Worse than all the rest of birth defects combined by far. But I don't see why it should prevent other birth defects.

I thought this was already done as it corrected the rare dual education phenomenia.

Oh yeah, it was. My mistake. o

 

[unmerged(5822)]

If someone got illness or intestinal worm, it would replace the deadlier diseases unless blocked by the event script (to prevent "leprocy being cured by means of worm" for instance), correct?

I agree with the above poster on the matter of intestinal worms; the presence of worms should not come in the way of the development of even more serious diseases.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

The presence of Illness trait or other advanced illness traits than Worms prevent onset of futher Illness traits. Of course if you would have a way to hit Illness to a character with an advanced illness like Pneumonia already, it would "cure" the Pneumonia there. Same with Stress and the various advanced cases of Stress.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

The presence of Illness trait or other advanced illness traits than Worms prevent onset of futher Illness traits. Of course if you would have a way to hit Illness to a character with an advanced illness like Pneumonia already, it would "cure" the Pneumonia there. Same with Stress and the various advanced cases of Stress.

True, but we're not doing that, unless your wanting to script some "illness subsides a bit" events.

However you can still get illness trait with intestial worm although its the only way i know its formed is via illness and none of the other more severe illness traits allow you to get illness trait while you have that one. it doesn't make sense.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

However you can still get illness trait with intestial worm although its the only way i know its formed is via illness and none of the other more severe illness traits allow you to get illness trait while you have that one. it doesn't make sense.

It makes sense, though it's not consistent with other severe illness traits. But it's intentional, since you are supposed to be able to have Worms in addition to any other illness trait. Worms are least severe of the advanced illness traits, giving only -5 health and nothing else. But it's also non-curable, so it's practically a permanent effect on that character, so when you have it, it's similiar to birth defects really.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

It makes sense, though it's not consistent with other severe illness traits. But it's intentional, since you are supposed to be able to have Worms in addition to any other illness trait. Worms are least severe of the advanced illness traits, giving only -5 health and nothing else. But it's also non-curable, so it's practically a permanent effect on that character, so when you have it, it's similiar to birth defects really.

Well...you can still have it as an antithesis of illness, ie when you get worms, it will remove illness but not vise versa.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well...you can still have it as an antithesis of illness, ie when you get worms, it will remove illness but not vise versa.

I suppose so, I've not tested enough with antithesises myself to be 100% sure putting which where does what.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

I suppose so, I've not tested enough with antithesises myself to be 100% sure putting which where does what.

Hey i'm just trying to get as much as i can from load time and cpu usage since more lines overall=more laod time and more events firing with more effects (irreguardless of their triggering conditions) also takes up a bit more cpu load.