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unmerged(30192)

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Well think of historical/ahistorical I think there are four ways
1. Historical actions with historical outcomes i.e. Germany invading USSR, made some initial gains, but finally lost the war. And I think HOI2 has been quite well with this, at least, if you human don't do anything which changes the balance of powers dramatically, things tend to follow the historical path, but historical outcomes that depend on game progresses i.e.war with Russia, will be difficult to simulate a historical outcome.
2. Historical actions with ahistorical outcomes - this I think, also involve in-game progresses and whether turning on/off doesn't matter but require more of a sensible AI decision. For example, Operation Barbarossa under AI almost always happens at July 1941, but the outcome might be that Soviet getting crushed. This I think, is difficult to say historical or not, especially if some linked events don't have a historical outcome the rest of them then will not be able to go historical i.e. France didn't fall to the Blitzkrieg, Holland and Belgium never capitulated, and in the end everything ended up as a trench warfare; should German AI still invade USSR at 1941 then?
3. Ahistorical actions with historical outcomes - This is what happens when we simply don't want to follow history and start to do random things. And basically I think when things are going so ahistorical it's really difficult to force the AI to go back down the right path. Even something really remote may greatly altered the final outcome. I think the present events structure of a AI chance 100/0 and how the events are scripted may ensure that most ahistorical actions will not have dramatic effect on the outcome of other things.
4. Ahistorical actions with ahistorical outcomes - if the game follows this then the AI should matter the most i.e. by making the best decision and reaction, for its best interest. Also we will not expect any events to happen that will follow the historical part. The AI is most important but there should be no problem with this.

Conclusion: I think the present system is OK, whether an option to switch historical accuracy doesn't seem too big a deal - if you want historical accuracy, you should avoid doing things that will dramatically change the conditions.
 

POemil

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blue emu said:
I suggested in a different thread that the game start-up menu include a little check-box that you could (optionally) check, labelled "Force Historical Event Choices". The only effect of turning this option on would be that (with it turned on), the AI would ALWAYS choose action_a in events, as if it has a 100% assigned probability. So long as the game coders adopted a programming standard where the historical outcome was always assigned to action_a, this would result in the historical pre-war path being followed whenever you played a game with this option activated.


Maybe instead of a checkbox, it could be a slider? If u put the slider at 100% the AI (and you?) can only choose the historical choices. If u put it at another value, some modifier kicks in that modifies the probabilities of event options being choosen (I am not mathematical smart enough to work this out :/ ). The lower u put the slider, the more chance u have ur game goes ahistorical!

no?
 

EvilSanta

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The Balbinater said:
to me it's about what my decisions would have been as a leader of a country at the time, given the real world circumstances. if the AI does something kind of crazy, then the game suddenly is no longer "real world". the AI is already infamous for doing things no human would do, so if the events could at least be modified to accept a historical decision, then this would greatly help.

bal

It's hardly a "real world circumstance" when you know the script from the get-go.

Hitler and co didn't have the luxury of planning years and years ahead knowing this and this would happen at that date.

Just saying.
 

The Balbinater

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EvilSanta said:
Hitler and co didn't have the luxury of planning years and years ahead knowing this and this would happen at that date.

really? never heard of the office of the 4 year plan?

bal
 

juv95hrn

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blue emu said:
I suggested in a different thread that the game start-up menu include a little check-box that you could (optionally) check, labelled "Force Historical Event Choices". The only effect of turning this option on would be that (with it turned on), the AI would ALWAYS choose action_a in events, as if it has a 100% assigned probability. So long as the game coders adopted a programming standard where the historical outcome was always assigned to action_a, this would result in the historical pre-war path being followed whenever you played a game with this option activated.

Make it so!
 

EvilSanta

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The Balbinater said:
really? never heard of the office of the 4 year plan?

bal

They had plans, yes. Did they know exactly when they would be put into action 5 years ahead of time? Did Germans know HOW Allies would react to their actions?

No.

And this goes only for Germany. How realistic is it that, say, UK player knows all the events 5 years ahead of time?

Just saying. When you have the information way ahead of time, it loses the feeling of "authenticity". You simply wait for those events to happen. You know exactly how the war will go and prepare accordicngly.

Real politicians did not see into the future.
 
Last edited:

TheDeadlyShoe

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For example, real politicians would never scrap their navy because they know they have a few years of grace period.
 

DesertSnow

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I always feel strange when i read advice such as :

"Do all your minister changes now, because in 1-2 months you will get the Anssluss event and with it a -10 reduction in dissent."

"Do not take this province in Siam, because when the "siam surrenders" event fires, you will have a problem with units stranded in hostile terittory"

"If you take the x,y,z provinces, the bitter peace event will fire."

Personally, i like the direction paradox is taking in EU3 and Rome, where there are no specific AI scripts for each country. It certainly needs A LOT OF FINETUNING to get "realistic" outcomes and certain events will always be necessary, but it is a step towards a smarter AI, capable of adjusting its actions to what is happening in the game, and not to what happened in RL.