Idea Groups

[nalivayko]

Just a thought, to make idea group division slightly more logical. I've made peace with admin/diplo/military division, now if only it would make slightly more sense:

Administrative Idea Groups:

• Plutocracy/Aristocracy
• Innovative
• Expansion
• Economy
• Administrative

Diplomatic Idea Groups:

• Diplomatic Ideas
• Espionage
• Religious
• Trade
• Exploration

Military

• Offensive
• Defensive
• Quality
• Quantity
• Naval

Espionage to Diplomatic groups - I hope no explanation is necessary
Expansion to Administration - once expansion happens, it's management is internal matter
Religious to Diplomacy - could be either admin or diplo
Plutocracy/Aristocracy - not sure if it's admin, but imo, it's not military. Military should be a choice between land and naval at times. Thus, naval is moved to military and both "cracies" need to go to where power is managed.

Now, I am confident that some mods would do a much better job redesigning this aspect of the game, I am just trying to balance "existing" groups, not to add new ones or delete old ones.

Your thoughts?

 

[unmerged(584823)]

Well, the fact is that Paradox made the choice to make Naval a Diplomacy tech. The game is not out yet, so I think I can't tell if what you did is good or not, because Paradox worked many years to equilibrate the game. While you only played the demo (no slice intended). I really think it's needed to wait for the full game before making assomptions.

 

[xnao]

Better than existing division imo. Naval in diplomacy is /boggle.

 

[knul]

Better than existing division imo. Naval in diplomacy is /boggle.

Not necessary. The way I see it, the navy's main function in EU4 is to protect trade, which falls under the diplomacy banner. Its other function is to maintain a colonial empire through protection and transportation of troops. Colonization/exploration is also a diplomacy item.

So the navy is more or less an extension of other Diplomacy mechanisms, so it makes sense in a way that it too fall under Diplomacy. The name "Diplomacy" is perhaps a bit misleading though, as it includes trade, "real" diplomacy, espionage and colonization.

 

[nalivayko]

Well, the fact is that Paradox made the choice to make Naval a Diplomacy tech. The game is not out yet, so I think I can't tell if what you did is good or not, because Paradox worked many years to equilibrate the game. While you only played the demo (no slice intended). I really think it's needed to wait for the full game before making assomptions.

It may be as a shock to you, but neither did Paradox work many years to "equilibrate" the game (EUIV NIs are a new beast here) nor are they always right in their decisions. They have their thoughts and ideas and their design philosophy, and they are more good than bad, since we play the game and enjoy it too. And yet it would be erroneous to say that there is no room for improvement. In my opinion.

Not necessary. The way I see it, the navy's main function in EU4 is to protect trade, which falls under the diplomacy banner. Its other function is to maintain a colonial empire through protection and transportation of troops. Colonization/exploration is also a diplomacy item.

So the navy is more or less an extension of other Diplomacy mechanisms, so it makes sense in a way that it too fall under Diplomacy. The name "Diplomacy" is perhaps a bit misleading though, as it includes trade, "real" diplomacy, espionage and colonization.

War is also an extension of diplomacy, to paraphrase. And yet, military is in category of its own. The only justification to put naval into diplomacy groups is to make a player choose early on between trade and naval (both eating diplomacy points).

 

[unmerged(584823)]

It may be as a shock to you, but neither did Paradox work many years to "equilibrate" the game (EUIV NIs are a new beast here) nor are they always right in their decisions. They have their thoughts and ideas and their design philosophy, and they are more good than bad, since we play the game and enjoy it too. And yet it would be erroneous to say that there is no room for improvement. In my opinion.

I never said so, I just think it's too early to discuss of this kind of improvment because we didn't play the game more than 28 years yet, so we can't know if the way Paradox made it is equilibrate and pleasant or not. It would be a pleasure to tell you, in one week, what I eventually think of this system. But for now, I can't have an opinion yet.

 

[unmerged(398716)]

Your way makes sense, but I feel that places too many important idea groups in the administration pool. Expansion and -cracy are both pretty important idea groups and I find that I'm constantly dropping administration points into cores/decisions/stability.

 

[nalivayko]

I never said so, I just think it's too early to discuss of this kind of improvment because we didn't play the game more than 18 years yet, so we can't know if the way Paradox made it is equilibrate and pleasant or not. It would be a pleasure to tell you, in one week, what I eventually think of this system. But for now, I can't have an opinion yet.

Fair enough. I should not comment on the balance of the groups myself. I am happy with most of the game anyway, while missing out on some immersion possibilities (e.g. Espionage not being tied to Diplomacy, especially when diplomats perform spy actions now).

 

[nalivayko]

Your way makes sense, but I feel that places too many important idea groups in the administration pool. Expansion and -cracy are both pretty important idea groups and I find that I'm constantly dropping administration points into cores/decisions/stability.

Not too mention tech. You have to use Admin points on tech, otherwise you will ran out of diplo and military NIs to dump your other points into

Frankly, it's a matter of your game style. I found myself concentrating on other two groups anyway, no administration idea group seemed more valuable than diplo or military group choices. Granted, we are talking about short-term goals of the demo lifespan. Hargrave is right, maybe when the game is out and I've played a hundred years or two, admin ideas will seem more valuable to me.