Idea Groups according to Quill18

[Zubrowka]

Am I right in TheoryCrafting that for most countries, picking three ideas in two categories, and two ideas in the last category is the way to go? Spread out your monarch power points and all. Obviously the last few ideas may not even come in to play, because at least 90% of games are never played until completion. So for the first three ideas you might want to split them between the three categories.

I think we will see some 2-2-4 builds, in no particular order. Especially if you take an idea that yields a bonus adviser, then you can take an adviser from the monarch point category in which you have more idea groups to balance out your point accumulation with expenditure. That was a complicated sentence, but I think you get what I mean. That way, you have 1 adviser for every two idea groups (1 admin guy to support your 2 admin idea groups, 2 diplo guys for your 4 diplo idea groups, and so on). It remains proportional. 3-2-3 doesn't lend itself to that kind of management, but there are probably ways to make that work smoothly (i.e. if you are really into advisers and roll with 5 from ideas and gosh maybe 6 as HREmperor!) Of course, all of this does not factor in which monarch point category you tend to burn through most quickly as a result of all the other factors in the game.

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

I think we will see some 2-2-4 builds, in no particular order. Especially if you take an idea that yields a bonus adviser, then you can take an adviser from the monarch point category in which you have more idea groups to balance out your point accumulation with expenditure. That was a complicated sentence, but I think you get what I mean. That way, you have 1 adviser for every two idea groups (1 admin guy to support your 2 admin idea groups, 2 diplo guys for your 4 diplo idea groups, and so on). It remains proportional. 3-2-3 doesn't lend itself to that kind of management, but there are probably ways to make that work smoothly (i.e. if you are really into advisers and roll with 5 from ideas and gosh maybe 6 as HREmperor!) Of course, all of this does not factor in which monarch point category you tend to burn through most quickly as a result of all the other factors in the game.

That extra advisor bonus doesn't let you have 4 advisors; it lets you have 4 choices for advisor in each of the 3 categories.

 

[Nilmerf]

I was thinking some colonial naval powers might want a 2-4-2 build, but I don't know how viable it would be until we play the game all the way through. Someone like England might want Naval, Exploration, Trade, and Expansion ideas.

If you're going 4 military ideas, you could have some pretty absurd combinations. I personally like the standard 3 with Offensive, Quality, and Aristocracy for a lot of nations though.

 

[Haresus]

So I looked into some of the unique National Ideas and found some nations that would especially suited for a glorious techublic (Technological Republic):
Russia/Novgorod. I can't remember if a Russia formed by Novgorod will have Russian ideas or not, they had not decided when they wrote the DD. The Russian ideas grant 10% cheaper technology and Novgorod is a perfectly positioned republic. Go get plutocracy/innovative immediately, and you might be able to bath in the extra Russian technology boost later on. 25% cheaper technology. But you also get the Eastern Tech penalty, so westernising might be necessary.
Milan. The Ambrosian Republic is just one DHE away, and the ideas are perfect for technology and ideas. 10% cheaper ideas and 5% cheaper technology can both be gained eventually. The cheaper ideas will be perfect to actually get the last idea in the Plutocracy Idea Group as soon as possible. 20% cheaper technology, and you can also save a couple thousand monarch points thanks to the cheaper ideas.

France or Ming are also possible alternatives, if you can somehow achieve a republic there. Venice and the Hansa are the major republics at the start of the game, but neither of them gain any cheaper technology through their unique National Ideas.

I can't wait for someone to go completely crazy with a Milanese republic.

 

[Dafool]

Combined arms is not important till fire-arms oriented infantry comes in(Maurician infantry, Tercio, Free Shooters). At least it is so for Eu3, idk for Eu4, but i assume it is as i say. Mostly what is important, are dots of unit, so as long as you have good enough cavalry, cavalry-only armies, beat infantry cavarly till the said units comes up.

This is incorrect. Losing that bonus in EU3, due to having an all cavalry force, is the equivalent of taking 50% more casualties in each battle. Going with an all cavalry army might be effective against pure infantry forces, largely because of the order of the attack phases, but against mixed stacks, especially ones of similar sizes, it's mostly a good way to hemorrhage manpower for a very slight advantage in combat. At that point you're almost certainly better off using mixed stacks yourself, because they'll be significantly more practical in terms of costs, even after the bonuses Poland receives.

 

[justin6477]

So I looked into some of the unique National Ideas and found some nations that would especially suited for a glorious techublic (Technological Republic):
Russia/Novgorod. I can't remember if a Russia formed by Novgorod will have Russian ideas or not, they had not decided when they wrote the DD. The Russian ideas grant 10% cheaper technology and Novgorod is a perfectly positioned republic. Go get plutocracy/innovative immediately, and you might be able to bath in the extra Russian technology boost later on. 25% cheaper technology. But you also get the Eastern Tech penalty, so westernising might be necessary.

According to Quill's Poland-Lithuania-Hungary video, you need to be 8 techs behind... so I guess it's an excuse to spend money on ideas instead? You do border Sweden after-all.

 

[BoleslavLev]

Novgorod forming Russia will hold Novgorodian ideas.

 

[Haresus]

Novgorod forming Russia will hold Novgorodian ideas.

Ah well, that is a shame. Unless Novgorod also got a tech cost decrease..

 

[BoleslavLev]

I think it won´t. Novgorodian Russia will be quite different from that classic Russia we know. It won´t be great warmonger, but it will have huge economic potential.

 

[justin6477]

I think it won´t. Novgorodian Russia will be quite different from that classic Russia we know. It won´t be great warmonger, but it will have huge economic potential.

Have we seen anything to suggest Novgorod got unique NIs? Last I remember it was probably getting the Russian NI set along with Muscovy and the others.

 

[unmerged(584823)]

Have we seen anything to suggest Novgorod got unique NIs? Last I remember it was probably getting the Russian NI set along with Muscovy and the others.

Yep, there was a DD for them, the NI are:

Novgorod start with 20% cheaper mercenaries, and +2 to diplomatic reputation.

Northern Center of Arts: +1 Yearly Prestige
City of Churches: +1 Missionary Strength
Ivan's Hundred: +1 Yearly Republican Tradition
Control of the Hanseatic Kontor: +1 Merchant & +5% Trade Power
The Grand Dukes Army: +20% Manpower
Exploration Tradition: +1 Naval Tradition.
Baltic Shipyard: -20% Lightship Cost

And when fully powered up, they get a +25% to defensiveness.

 

[1alexey]

I think it won´t. Novgorodian Russia will be quite different from that classic Russia we know. It won´t be great warmonger, but it will have huge economic potential.

Huge economic potential with +1 merchant and 5% trade power?

 

[unmerged(584823)]

Huge economic potential with +1 merchant and 5% trade power?

The fact Novgorod is a trade republic means, that, unless the government form has changed, Russia will be a trade republic. So yeah, it will have a good economic potential.

 

[turnad]

Huge economic potential with +1 merchant and 5% trade power?

Merchants are powerful; the plus trade is nice, but it's the naval tradition, prestige and cheaper light ships that translate to stronger trade.

 

[1alexey]

The fact Novgorod is a trade republic means, that, unless the government form has changed, Russia will be a trade republic. So yeah, it will have a good economic potential.

Merchants are powerful; the plus trade is nice, but it's the naval tradition, prestige and cheaper light ships that translate to stronger trade.

Trade income will beat tax and production income for Russia? Seriously?
Muscovy gets 10% tax and 10% production efficency. I can not help but doubt that trade does beat that.

 

[turnad]

Trade income will beat tax and production income for Russia? Seriously?
Muscovy gets 10% tax and 10% production efficency. I can not help but doubt that trade does beat that.

Well, if Muscovy remains a monarchy and Novgorod a republic, Novgorod would have these ides that Muscovy wont:
Free Merchants: Merchants: +1
Free Subjects: Production Efficiency: +20.0%

So their Production would be greater if they take the Plutocracy path while Muscovy took Aristocracy. And more merchants does mean more fingers in the trade pie and more ability to steer it to where you want it. Which plus trade boost and the boost in trade modifiers from prestige and tradition, it would be quite economically strong, quite possible enough to offset Muscovy's ideas.

 

[Nilmerf]

Those Novgorod ideas look like some of the weakest in the game. Especially compared to Muscovite Russia. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be an interesting play, though.

 

[Red_warning]

I hope they do something about the exceptionally bland names, or at least remove "idea" to make it less repetitive.

 

[rho]

I love that everyone is arguing about which the best military ideas are. That pretty much means that there isn't any single idea group that is obviously superior, and that it depends mostly on play-style. Which means that Paradox have done their jobs well. (Personally, I like defensive, since I think it will suit my style of play the best.)

I'm also looking forward to starting the game as a republic and bee-lining revolution and counter-revolution as quickly as I can and then going on a military rampage. Maybe I'll try a warmonger Switzerland.

 

[Meneth]

I love that everyone is arguing about which the best military ideas are. That pretty much means that there isn't any single idea group that is obviously superior, and that it depends mostly on play-style. Which means that Paradox have done their jobs well. (Personally, I like defensive, since I think it will suit my style of play the best.)

I'm also looking forward to starting the game as a republic and bee-lining revolution and counter-revolution as quickly as I can and then going on a military rampage. Maybe I'll try a warmonger Switzerland.

I think most people will agree that Quality is probably the best military idea group. But beyond that it is all situational, yeah.