We lovee idea groups, some of them at least, others, not so much. I'm not even gonna try to adress the naval idea groups, but I've compiled quite some ideas on how to tweak and rework some idea groups for what I believe would create some more interesting choices and affect the gameplay in certain ways. I will list idea groups in order of the seriousness of changes starting from the bottom, i.e. first idea groups are minor tweaks to make them more flavorful or a small tweak and work myself up until the espionage idea group which I have tried to overhaul into relevance (some numbers are tentative of course)
That's it, I did not even think to do naval, maritime, exploration or expansion and for the remaining idea groups (innovative, humanist, plutocratic) I didn't come up with any interesting or worthwhile change at the moment
A solid and strong idea group with many good modifiers. It seems that buildings though are increasingly seen as mostly not cost efficient, I'm not gonna try to fix the underlying issue, but adding a -10% build time modifier to the 'organized construction' idea would slightely help, making most normal buildings 1-2 months faster to build and manufactures finish 6 months earlier
an honestly great idea group that just lacks in the fact that it's not humanist, albeit the boost to conversion cost should certainly help this idea group. My main idea here were not so much to buff the group (although that's what I ended up doing) but just giving it a little bit more flavor. For the 'deus vult' idea (we all know this one) I wanted to really feel the power of the deus vult so I suggest adding +10 land morale as an extra modifier to the idea, making it the only idea outside defensive giving a direct morale boost, and giving religious an extra edge I do think it needs
I also figure that prestige is pretty garbage as a bonus, as it's easy to keep a high prestige, especially when converting en masse, it does help a bit when changing religion, but even then it's usually pretty easy to deal with. So I'd suggest another modifier. My first thought was an idea called "Dei Gratia Rex" giving legitimacy bonus, but I already gave that to aristocratic, and it's also a modifier that wouldn't aid theocracies or republics that choose religious. I simply decided to go with an extra missionary instead, as it is currently somewhat of a bottleneck (in my recent austria campaign I was sitting at 5 missionaries and couldn't convert fast enough)
I also figure that prestige is pretty garbage as a bonus, as it's easy to keep a high prestige, especially when converting en masse, it does help a bit when changing religion, but even then it's usually pretty easy to deal with. So I'd suggest another modifier. My first thought was an idea called "Dei Gratia Rex" giving legitimacy bonus, but I already gave that to aristocratic, and it's also a modifier that wouldn't aid theocracies or republics that choose religious. I simply decided to go with an extra missionary instead, as it is currently somewhat of a bottleneck (in my recent austria campaign I was sitting at 5 missionaries and couldn't convert fast enough)
'Glorious arms' (+100% prestige from battles) have been replaced with 'Striking enemy land' which gives +10% loot speed
A modifier otherwise only accessible in certain national ideas, would make sense to add as a leader trait as well
A modifier otherwise only accessible in certain national ideas, would make sense to add as a leader trait as well
Qualitative have always been great for making space marines and stacking good policies (although qual-innovative got nerfed now) but as an idea group on it's own it suffered from having 4 ideas (half of the group bonuses with a base cost of 1600 mil point) be of circumstantial use at best, talking cav CA and the three naval ideas. It also got nerfed in it's army tradition idea recently, but oh well. I taken to try to wrk the group a little bit more in line of those space marine forces we talked about by some minor tweaks:
Qualitative idea 6 (copper bottoms, -25% naval attrition) is now replaced by Qualitative Army Drill: +25% army drill modifier, for players without the CoC dlc they get -5% fire and shock damage taken (tentative number) basically giving a small amount of the benefits of the drill which would actually be prefgerable to players who dont care about drilling
The finisher have now the additional modifiers:
+15% special unit force limit (affects janissaries, cossacks, rajputs and banners) It, as of now doesn't affect marines force limit, so I'd suggest that it does or add +5% marines force limit as it's own modifier
Qualitative idea 6 (copper bottoms, -25% naval attrition) is now replaced by Qualitative Army Drill: +25% army drill modifier, for players without the CoC dlc they get -5% fire and shock damage taken (tentative number) basically giving a small amount of the benefits of the drill which would actually be prefgerable to players who dont care about drilling
The finisher have now the additional modifiers:
+15% special unit force limit (affects janissaries, cossacks, rajputs and banners) It, as of now doesn't affect marines force limit, so I'd suggest that it does or add +5% marines force limit as it's own modifier
Not necessarily trying to make aristocratic better per se, but more make it fit a certain niche or place.
I've removed local nobility (autonomy decrease and absolutism increase, there are enough sources of absolutism in the game as of now and IMO not really fitting the idea group). Instead I put there 'International marriage ties': +1 yearly legitimacy (quite a rare modifier) and +50% chance of an heir
I also removed noble connections (mercenary manpower) and replaced it with 'glorious arms' (stolen from offensive ideas) giving +100% prestige form land combat.
There was some idea of aristocratic better representing NOBILITY, whatever that actually means and this way it does have some purpose additional purpose when chasing PU's, but it's still far from being a particularly relevant idea group. It ties in a bit to my suggestion on influence ideas
I've removed local nobility (autonomy decrease and absolutism increase, there are enough sources of absolutism in the game as of now and IMO not really fitting the idea group). Instead I put there 'International marriage ties': +1 yearly legitimacy (quite a rare modifier) and +50% chance of an heir
I also removed noble connections (mercenary manpower) and replaced it with 'glorious arms' (stolen from offensive ideas) giving +100% prestige form land combat.
There was some idea of aristocratic better representing NOBILITY, whatever that actually means and this way it does have some purpose additional purpose when chasing PU's, but it's still far from being a particularly relevant idea group. It ties in a bit to my suggestion on influence ideas
I'm putting these two groups in the same spoiler because I switch their ideas around alittle bit. My general idea was not to try to specifically buff or nerf any of the groups but make them more purposeful, or specifically make influence the true idea group for PU and vassal gameplay, and what did I need to get there?
Well first of I felt influence needed a diplomat, the pain of not having an extra diplomat then playing with many relations, and especially when being stuck in the HRE are real. So I switched diplomatic idea "great banquet" (+1 diplomat) for influence idea 'postal service' (-25% envoy speed)*.
I also added +1 yearly prestige to the great banquet idea, as prestige is essential to the PU game (need the prestige to get thrones, keep them and inherit them)
After that I decided to switch their finishers. They are both very strong (diplomatic gives -1 stab hit for diplomatic actions and influence -50% unjustified demands) Depending on playstyle there could be an argument for which one is better.
The reason for the switch then is because while the unjustified demands are great for forcing vassalisation, the reduced stab hit will make playing game of thrones, less stab hitting. Breaking royal marriages or declaring war on targets one have a royal marriage with will become become painless.
Although the diplomatic combo of province war score cost + unjustified demands might just be to brutal a beast to deal with, I think it's an interest approach making for a more 'characteristic idea group'
Well first of I felt influence needed a diplomat, the pain of not having an extra diplomat then playing with many relations, and especially when being stuck in the HRE are real. So I switched diplomatic idea "great banquet" (+1 diplomat) for influence idea 'postal service' (-25% envoy speed)*.
I also added +1 yearly prestige to the great banquet idea, as prestige is essential to the PU game (need the prestige to get thrones, keep them and inherit them)
After that I decided to switch their finishers. They are both very strong (diplomatic gives -1 stab hit for diplomatic actions and influence -50% unjustified demands) Depending on playstyle there could be an argument for which one is better.
The reason for the switch then is because while the unjustified demands are great for forcing vassalisation, the reduced stab hit will make playing game of thrones, less stab hitting. Breaking royal marriages or declaring war on targets one have a royal marriage with will become become painless.
Although the diplomatic combo of province war score cost + unjustified demands might just be to brutal a beast to deal with, I think it's an interest approach making for a more 'characteristic idea group'
Trade is just, why waste MP into a bunch of ideas when you can just conquer all land and get total trade control from that?
What I did here was just throw in a bunch of modifiers which will make trade ideas just help more in standing out and being able to use it more effectively for less blobby campaigns
Idea 2 'free trade' (+1 merchant) have been renamed encourage 'local traders' which still gives +1 merchant but now also +10% domestic trade power
Idea 3 merchant adventure (trade range) have been scrapped because trade range is, of very limited use, and have been replaced with the new idea 'dominating merchant' which gives +5 merchant power (a modifier I found in the custom nation design but never seen anywhere else) which does what it says it does, your merchants are more powerful. And the idea also gives +25% embargo efficiency
idea 5 overseas merchant, still gives +1 merchant but now also gives +10% trade power abroad (so basically you will get +10% trade power in all nodes, it's just different modifiers in use depending on if it's a domestic or foreign node)
the finisher no longer gives a merchant though. Instead it gives -40% cost to increase mercantilism. And mercantilism increase provincial trade modifier and embargo efficiency (and also burgher loyalty equilibrium)
In short I just boosted this group to give more trade power, i.e. more money for you, and easier, and less money for everyone else.
What I did here was just throw in a bunch of modifiers which will make trade ideas just help more in standing out and being able to use it more effectively for less blobby campaigns
Idea 2 'free trade' (+1 merchant) have been renamed encourage 'local traders' which still gives +1 merchant but now also +10% domestic trade power
Idea 3 merchant adventure (trade range) have been scrapped because trade range is, of very limited use, and have been replaced with the new idea 'dominating merchant' which gives +5 merchant power (a modifier I found in the custom nation design but never seen anywhere else) which does what it says it does, your merchants are more powerful. And the idea also gives +25% embargo efficiency
idea 5 overseas merchant, still gives +1 merchant but now also gives +10% trade power abroad (so basically you will get +10% trade power in all nodes, it's just different modifiers in use depending on if it's a domestic or foreign node)
the finisher no longer gives a merchant though. Instead it gives -40% cost to increase mercantilism. And mercantilism increase provincial trade modifier and embargo efficiency (and also burgher loyalty equilibrium)
In short I just boosted this group to give more trade power, i.e. more money for you, and easier, and less money for everyone else.
Administrative is the most quintessential idea group for playing wide because of core creation cost and (now) governing capacity.
I'm not gonna nerf that, but I will rework the characteristic of the idea group a bit to make it feel more like, an idea group for administering your country, both old lands and new conquest. SO I dropped all the mercenary ideas (there are three) and replaced them with other ideas.
Administrative 1 is now: [insert name here] -0.05 monthly autonomy and -0.10 monthly devastation. I think it speaks quite clearly for itself how it fits an idea groups focused on administrating, and the rule it has in the game will make it faster to reap the benefits of provinces after conquered and help deal with multitudes of occurrences such as enemy looting, increasing autonomy to avoid unrest and few other things that can happen. It will also help increase the government reform progress
Administrative 3 is now: Efficient state level bureaucracy -25% state maintenance cost. Making it cheaper to administer the empire, and makes edicts more readily usable. Not a strong buff but useful
Administrative 5 is now: Audit checks -0.10 yearly corruption. Corruption is no longer a meta defining issue after it's brief role as such due to territory corruption. It will help administer the empire when having overextension, low religious unity, it will make it less painful to debase currency or change government reform, making it suitable to the administrative idea group
Now most of you might recognize that this idea was straight out taken form espionage idea group, and also you might be asking ,what about mercs? He removed every single merc modifier in the idea groups. Let's head to the next spoiler and see.
I'm not gonna nerf that, but I will rework the characteristic of the idea group a bit to make it feel more like, an idea group for administering your country, both old lands and new conquest. SO I dropped all the mercenary ideas (there are three) and replaced them with other ideas.
Administrative 1 is now: [insert name here] -0.05 monthly autonomy and -0.10 monthly devastation. I think it speaks quite clearly for itself how it fits an idea groups focused on administrating, and the rule it has in the game will make it faster to reap the benefits of provinces after conquered and help deal with multitudes of occurrences such as enemy looting, increasing autonomy to avoid unrest and few other things that can happen. It will also help increase the government reform progress
Administrative 3 is now: Efficient state level bureaucracy -25% state maintenance cost. Making it cheaper to administer the empire, and makes edicts more readily usable. Not a strong buff but useful
Administrative 5 is now: Audit checks -0.10 yearly corruption. Corruption is no longer a meta defining issue after it's brief role as such due to territory corruption. It will help administer the empire when having overextension, low religious unity, it will make it less painful to debase currency or change government reform, making it suitable to the administrative idea group
Now most of you might recognize that this idea was straight out taken form espionage idea group, and also you might be asking ,what about mercs? He removed every single merc modifier in the idea groups. Let's head to the next spoiler and see.
espionage almost made it into real relevance after rule britannia and dharma, the -20% aggressive expansion and corruption reduction in an age of crippling territory corruption made it viable as an idea group for expansion.
But it suffered from certain issues. Espionage already struggled for a long time to find itself, after it's original purpose to unlock spy action turned out to be so irrelevant devs have overhauled it two times trying to find it's niche, espionage itself is not very relevant in the game beyond fabricating claims and mildly annoying other players. In it's current state the idea group is a jack of all trades with unclear focus. Spy network construction and cost to fabricate claim are useful, especially early before better CB's, but becomes irrelevant except for the most perfectionist micromanager in later game. aggressive expansion modifier is great and corruption while no longer game defining is still neat, but not worth the investment solely for itself as it almost was for some time. And even back then, two days ago, it suffered from the serious question, when should i pick this idea? spy things are nice in the beginning, territory corruptions starts ticking in later in most games, but is it more important than diplomatic? humanist? administrative? first military idea group of choice? and in the end if it's picked it's almost only the territory corruption that mattered
the rest of the group is at best nice to have (like -10% advisor cost, extra diplomat and foreign spy detection) to pretty garbage (privateer efficiency except for very specific plays)
So the way I've redone it, is to be the optimal idea group for people who don't like to play nice in early game, especially inside the HRE there focus is on expansion the old school way.
Espionage ideas (if it still should be called this is a question) in my proposal looks like this:
1. Efficient Spies: +50%spy network construction (no longer gives advisor cost reduction)
2. Organized Mercenary Payment -10% mercenary cost
3. State Propaganda -20% aggressive expansion
4. Benefits for Mercenaries -15% mercenary maintanence
5. Claim Fabrication -25% cosst to fabricate claims, may fabricate claims for vassals
6. Mercenary Recruitment +25% Mercenary Manpower
7. Elite Mercenary Recruitment +5% Mercenary disciplin
Finisher: I wanted to put -25% harsh treatment cost here, but since there are several other ways of getting that modifier it would be easy to break, but it would a really suited for the way I imagine the espionage group to playstyle, especially in the hre.
Instead I went and bundled the old finisher (+50% rebel support) together with the old vetting idea (+33% foreign spy detection)
So in summary espionage is now the group when wanting to punch some military weight without investing mil point, by using money and negotiating skills to hire mercenaries. Combined with the faster and cheaper claims and reduced aggressive expansion it can be a very potent opening idea group for quick expansion (especially inside the HRE, and now with the icnreased cost to fabricate claims) , maybe discarded later in the game but instead of a jack-of-all-trades group with little use it now has a clear purpose and reason to exist.
But it suffered from certain issues. Espionage already struggled for a long time to find itself, after it's original purpose to unlock spy action turned out to be so irrelevant devs have overhauled it two times trying to find it's niche, espionage itself is not very relevant in the game beyond fabricating claims and mildly annoying other players. In it's current state the idea group is a jack of all trades with unclear focus. Spy network construction and cost to fabricate claim are useful, especially early before better CB's, but becomes irrelevant except for the most perfectionist micromanager in later game. aggressive expansion modifier is great and corruption while no longer game defining is still neat, but not worth the investment solely for itself as it almost was for some time. And even back then, two days ago, it suffered from the serious question, when should i pick this idea? spy things are nice in the beginning, territory corruptions starts ticking in later in most games, but is it more important than diplomatic? humanist? administrative? first military idea group of choice? and in the end if it's picked it's almost only the territory corruption that mattered
the rest of the group is at best nice to have (like -10% advisor cost, extra diplomat and foreign spy detection) to pretty garbage (privateer efficiency except for very specific plays)
So the way I've redone it, is to be the optimal idea group for people who don't like to play nice in early game, especially inside the HRE there focus is on expansion the old school way.
Espionage ideas (if it still should be called this is a question) in my proposal looks like this:
1. Efficient Spies: +50%spy network construction (no longer gives advisor cost reduction)
2. Organized Mercenary Payment -10% mercenary cost
3. State Propaganda -20% aggressive expansion
4. Benefits for Mercenaries -15% mercenary maintanence
5. Claim Fabrication -25% cosst to fabricate claims, may fabricate claims for vassals
6. Mercenary Recruitment +25% Mercenary Manpower
7. Elite Mercenary Recruitment +5% Mercenary disciplin
Finisher: I wanted to put -25% harsh treatment cost here, but since there are several other ways of getting that modifier it would be easy to break, but it would a really suited for the way I imagine the espionage group to playstyle, especially in the hre.
Instead I went and bundled the old finisher (+50% rebel support) together with the old vetting idea (+33% foreign spy detection)
So in summary espionage is now the group when wanting to punch some military weight without investing mil point, by using money and negotiating skills to hire mercenaries. Combined with the faster and cheaper claims and reduced aggressive expansion it can be a very potent opening idea group for quick expansion (especially inside the HRE, and now with the icnreased cost to fabricate claims) , maybe discarded later in the game but instead of a jack-of-all-trades group with little use it now has a clear purpose and reason to exist.
That's it, I did not even think to do naval, maritime, exploration or expansion and for the remaining idea groups (innovative, humanist, plutocratic) I didn't come up with any interesting or worthwhile change at the moment
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