Idea Group Elimination

[Sunspawn]

Can someone enlighten me whats so good about Defensive?

In my book, all of Offensive, Quality and Quantity are significantly better than Defensive.

With the nerf to manpower, Defensive offers you a combination of quality (morale and AT) with manpower-saving with the attrition reduction that can make sieging forts less painful. And yes, it is not a quarter as good at it as Quantity, but Quantity only gives many paper troops, while +1 to yearly AT and 15% morale is a very strong bonus.

 

[ringhloth]

Religious 12
Economic: 20
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 10
Diplomatic: 26
Exploration: 22
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 18
Quantity: 14

11. Quality
12. Expansion
13. Plutocratic
14. Aristocratic
15. Trade
16. Maritime
17. Innovative
18. Naval
19. Espionage

 

[Montem]

So now we've entered the Religious v. Humanist debate which will drive both of them off the list? I voted today already but have never taken Administrative becuase I've never used Mercs...

 

[ShoGuL]

Religious 12
Economic: 20
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 11
Diplomatic: 24
Exploration: 22
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 18
Quantity: 14

11. Quality
12. Expansion
13. Plutocratic
14. Aristocratic
15. Trade
16. Maritime
17. Innovative
18. Naval
19. Espionage

Humanist doesn't deserve to die -- it's an amazing idea, though it really shines outside of Europe.

Diplomatic is overrated unless you are trying to become Emperor IMO.

 

[Noel84]

I'm writing on an ipad and can't update the list with it, so can someone do that for me? Anyway upping quantity. Quantity is by far the best idea group IMO. As a semi-large sized country with full quantity I typically have about 100k units with 150-200k manpower, far more than en no ught to beat most armies, and since I pick it first other countries will probably have only one of offesive/defensive/uality groups so my swarm will flood them (unless they have BBB or Prussia's God NI's). There is also one major advantage quantity has over offensive/defensive, it makes you rich. It gives so much manpower that expensive mercs are pretty pointless, and if I get into a situation where I do need mercs, I have so many dcats stored I just laugh off the costs. Also it has many policies massively increasing force limit, and you'll have the funds to afford them , and they'll be s so cheap due to quantity's lowered costs that you'll still make a profit. Downing humanist, religious does its job better

 

[lolada]

I'm writing on an ipad and can't update the list with it, so can someone do that for me? Anyway upping quantity. Quantity is by far the best idea group IMO. As a semi-large sized country with full quantity I typically have about 100k units with 150-200k manpower, far more than en no ught to beat most armies, and since I pick it first other countries will probably have only one of offesive/defensive/uality groups so my swarm will flood them (unless they have BBB or Prussia's God NI's). There is also one major advantage quantity has over offensive/defensive, it makes you rich. It gives so much manpower that expensive mercs are pretty pointless, and if I get into a situation where I do need mercs, I have so many dcats stored I just laugh off the costs. Also it has many policies massively increasing force limit, and you'll have the funds to afford them , and they'll be s so cheap due to quantity's lowered costs that you'll still make a profit. Downing humanist, religious does its job better

There you go

Religious 12
Economic: 20
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 9 (-2)
Diplomatic: 24
Exploration: 22
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 18
Quantity: 15 (+1)

11. Quality
12. Expansion
13. Plutocratic
14. Aristocratic
15. Trade
16. Maritime
17. Innovative
18. Naval
19. Espionage

 

[SknerusMck]

Time for my daily vote !

Religious 12
Economic: 20
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 7 (-2)
Diplomatic: 24
Exploration: 22
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 19 (+1)
Quantity: 15

Upping def: It has received so many negative votes! I am afraid that it will fall to soon so i have to bump it just because i like it .
Dowing humanism: If i want more stability i take religious. I like the idea of country with one mainly culture and one religions; idea of humanism doesn't appeal to me. And it makes me think about current events.. i am a conservative person and i don't like how the world is changing .

 

[eon47]

Religious 12
Economic: 18
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 7
Diplomatic: 24
Exploration: 23
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 19
Quantity: 15

Up Exploration: Colonization is the defining trait of the era and allows for a completely new set of gameplay options; no other idea group changes the game as much.
Dowing Economic: To avenge the fall of aristocratic. Or for the reason I gave before. Definitely one of those.

 

[link777294]

Religious 13
Economic: 18
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 5
Diplomatic: 24
Exploration: 23
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 19
Quantity: 15

I will admit, Humanist is slightly better now that zeal COMPLETELY prevents conversion if you get really unlucky with religious centers converting your lands. But I still prefer to have only one religion in my lands.

 

[derfderf]

Religious 13
Economic: 19
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 5
Diplomatic: 22
Exploration: 23
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 19
Quantity: 15

Up Economic: One of the best idea groups, adding a significant number of % improvements that multiply exponentially over time. Furthermore, it has excellent policies and a number of nice quality-of-life improvements (inflation reduction, etc.).

Down Diplomatic: Save for the extra diplomat (fairly important at present due to an ill-thought out removal of the Embassy, but less so with 1.13), it is outclassed in every way by influence.

 

[Pedrinluigi]

Religious 13
Economic: 19
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 6
Diplomatic: 22
Exploration: 23
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 19
Quantity: 13

Up Humanist. It's a great idea, and I've always seen myself pick it in every game as Commonwealth, Ottomans, etc. It's great for huge empires, and some nations practically require them to function properly. Also, its events make your nation littered with heretics and stuff like that, and I love variety in my nations. Also, never having to deal with rebellions (at most having to increase autonomy for a while) is so satisfying.

Down Quantity. It's an idea that is definitely not bad, but compared to the ones still standing, and the fact that usually you cannot afford the extra forcelimits it gives, it's very circumstantial, and when I pick it I end up feeling like an idiot afterwards because I can rarely put all that extra forcelimits to use, and while the extra manpower helps, I still feel as if I would've gotten more out of my MP with another military idea group.

 

[Ol_Dirty]

Religious 11
Economic: 19
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 7
Diplomatic: 22
Exploration: 23
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 19
Quantity: 13

Humanists unite!

 

[Pedrinluigi]

Humanist is at 7, and Quantity at 13.

 

[Ol_Dirty]

Humanist is at 7, and Quantity at 13.

Fixed

 

[Magean]

Third day, third vote.

Religious 11
Economic: 19
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 8 (+1)
Diplomatic: 22
Exploration: 23
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 17 (-2)
Quantity: 13

In defense of Humanism I stand.
As for Defensive... it's certainly not bad but it's the remaining Mil idea I like the least.

11. Quality
12. Expansion
13. Plutocratic
14. Aristocratic
15. Trade
16. Maritime
17. Innovative
18. Naval
19. Espionage

 

[Pedrinluigi]

Humanist comeback! In defense of a game without revolts, rebellions, revolutions and disasters!

 

[Grand Pope Papa]

Religious 11
Economic: 20 (+1)
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 8
Diplomatic: 20 (-2)
Exploration: 23
Influence: 21
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 17
Quantity: 13

Diplomatic does not realy give you something that your two starting diplomats couldnt handle. The perks that it offers dont come into play that often.
Economics on the other hand makes you richer every day of the game. And money = monarch points and bigger army

11. Quality
12. Expansion
13. Plutocratic
14. Aristocratic
15. Trade
16. Maritime
17. Innovative
18. Naval
19. Espionage

 

[bbqftw]

The perks that it offers dont come into play that often.

20% warscore reduction will save you multiple trucebreaks, and you can access it very early in the game compared to imperialism and admin efficiency

 

[Clausewitz_]

20% warscore reduction will save you multiple trucebreaks, and you can access it very early in the game compared to imperialism and admin efficiency

I don't know if i speak for the majority here, but i don't find myself breaking truces intentionally at all. maybe for a wc, but that is entirely unappealing to me.

 

[Nightwing]

And once again.

Religious 11
Economic: 20
Administrative: 25
Humanist: 8
Diplomatic: 20
Exploration: 23
Influence: 22(+1)
Offensive: 21
Defensive: 17
Quantity: 11(-2)

Eliminated:

11. Quality
12. Expansion
13. Plutocratic
14. Aristocratic
15. Trade
16. Maritime
17. Innovative
18. Naval
19. Espionage

Quality has always held a soft spot in my heart, and I've never felt the need for Quantity as much myself.

On the other hand, Influence is a group I've gained an appreciation for recently. Particularly when expanding in regions such as the HRE, in which diplo relations, diplo-annexing and AE management are vital.