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unmerged(15483)

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Mar 11, 2003
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OK, now I have not really kept up to speed with this forum so please excuse me if this issue has already been addressed, or indeed a similar method has been adopted.

For a while now I have been thinking of ways in which I can assist in the development of HoI2. However, it was only until today when I was in fact playing a multiplayer game of HoI as Italy that I came up with an idea that I considered to be worthy of me making a thread and wasting Paradox’s precious bandwidth. Ok, well basically I was attacking Yugoslavia and the thought came to my head – wouldn’t my military operations go a hell of a lot better if I could launch a surprise attack on another nation. Not long afterwards I came up with this idea. Ok, now we all know that in HoI, you can’t move your troops into a neutral province/country. However, what I believe would work is if you COULD actually order your units move towards that province as if it was attacking, just as if you were at war with them. However, the difference is that when you reach the national borders of the enemy nation from where your forces are stationed, the game checks if you are at war with that nation. If you are not at war with the nation then the units are automatically turned back, because obviously going across the border would be an act of war. However, if you wanted to, just as your forces are reaching your targets borders, you could declare war and the units would just attack as normal and as it occurs in HoI. This would not only dramatically minimise the movement times of an invasion, but it would allow the game to simulate a surprise attack perfectly. You could also turn an option on and off to state whether you want the game to alert you when your troops are on the border, put them on hold at the borders and whether you want to either declare war on that nation, or pull the troops back. In theory and in my opinion, this sounds like a great idea that will add an extra sense of realism to the game, however in practice, perhaps it is flawed, or the developers are tackling it in a different way. Either way, I want to do my bit to help HoI2 become the greatest strategic game ever until HoI3.

So what do you guys think?
 

Stingray

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As Yaiko pretty much said, this won't be a problem in HOI2, since the moment that you order your troops to cross a border, they will begin an assult/battle.
Rather than the HOI system where your forces were walking halfway into enemy terretory, slugging it out, and then turning back if they lost.
 
Mar 11, 2004
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Well, as Yaiko said, Movement is Attack. This means that your forces already stand at the border (which makes sense), and ordering them to move at all already means crossing the borders, AND the enemy has no time to prepare for their arrival. So you just declare war and immediately start moving your troops - surprise achieved (of course, the enemy most likely noticed your forces assembling at the border. Which is realistic, too ;) ).
 

CMOTHodad

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Except that moving entire armies to your border is highly observable in times of peace, and would constitute no surprise (I'm sure the Yugoslavs will think your assembled armies and artillery pointed at them is a goodwill visit to the frontier ;))
 

CommanderCody

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We were talking about Pearl harbor on another thread and I think this would even be better implemented if you got a combat bonus for surprise attacks that diminished over time. Certainly, quite a few nations have been caught flat-footed on the first day or days of war, including the U.S. at Pearl Harbor and Clark Field, the Brits in Malaya and Russians on the western frontier. I think a combat bonus for the aggressor would model this quite well, say 30% on Day One, 20% on Day 2, and 10% on Day 3 (or whatever seems to work in playtesting).
 

unmerged(15483)

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Oh! Ok, Yeah, I heard about the movement is attack feature but was not completely sure how it worked. Thanks for updating me. Hmmm, well ok it obviously would not apply to land warfare, but how about naval and aerial warfare? As CommanderCody pointed out, pearl harbour was a surprise attack. You could simply take my method and apply it to the aerial and naval sections. So basically when the aerial units reach the airspace of the province you can decide whether to DOW or not. With the naval warfare, you could do the same thing except with landing craft... Also - how about a specific attack command to bombard the coast of a province? I realise that you could bombard when sending landing troops in HoI, but there should be ways to bombard a coast, even if you’re not sending troops. For example in WW2, when the allies bombarded Calais, to make it seem that they were landing on the Calais beaches, while simultaneously attacking Normandy. This would be another great addition for surprise warfare because you could trick your enemy into sending troops both ways.
 

JakMezak

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sebastian said:
Oh! Ok, Yeah, I heard about the movement is attack feature but was not completely sure how it worked. Thanks for updating me. Hmmm, well ok it obviously would not apply to land warfare, but how about naval and aerial warfare? As CommanderCody pointed out, pearl harbour was a surprise attack. You could simply take my method and apply it to the aerial and naval sections. So basically when the aerial units reach the airspace of the province you can decide whether to DOW or not. With the naval warfare, you could do the same thing except with landing craft... Also - how about a specific attack command to bombard the coast of a province? I realise that you could bombard when sending landing troops in HoI, but there should be ways to bombard a coast, even if you’re not sending troops. For example in WW2, when the allies bombarded Calais, to make it seem that they were landing on the Calais beaches, while simultaneously attacking Normandy. This would be another great addition for surprise warfare because you could trick your enemy into sending troops both ways.

Well the Naval and Air Warfare components have been totally redone and are mission oriented. Based on the number of air missions available, I imagine that bombard coast might be in for the naval missions. At any rate, since the system is totally redone for air and naval warfare and we haven't been told too much about it, its hard to say anything about it. Although, I imagine that they would keep surprise attack scenarios in mind.
 

unmerged(2997)

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One part of suprise which im not sure how could or is implemented is the air Attack.One reason for the ease Germany had in the opening of Barberossa was there complete air supremacy.As the cannons opened that day wave after wave of luftwaffe flew in a carefully co ordinated and masterfull plan.An attack for which Goering deserves most credit in implementation he was in one of his vigorous periods.Most of the Russian assets in the West were destroyed on the first day before they even got airborne..it was Winter before they could regroup sufficiantly.Estimates vary but 80 to 90 percent is alot and contributed greatly to the success .Its one problem in HOI in 41 the Russians did have massive armies I have no problems with that but there ability to move attack was severely limited by the loss of air control.

Can there be air suprise of this massive nature in the game....or is it a too deterministic reflection of history?
 

javiermcabo

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Myyyyyyyyyy God...

Did you guys know that if you press "enter" from time to time, your posts will be much more frienly to read?

:eek:o
:p
 

GrimReaper

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javiermcabo said:
Myyyyyyyyyy God...

Did you guys know that if you press "enter" from time to time, your posts will be much more frienly to read?

:eek:o
:p
:rofl: