I've been doing a lot of work fleshing out the heresies in CK2Plus, and it gave rise to a few thoughts about how heresies intrinsically work in CK2 and the issues they have. Namely:
Heresies That Can Be Created
Consider this: rather than having a heresy be a specific thing and only that, have a heresy that is "constructed" when MA is below a certain level. All religions are formed of a series of traits such as can_retire_to_monastery and female_temple_holders...all that's required for a heresy to be a heresy is that its traits differ from its parent's. Randomly remove some, or add traits the parent doesn't have. Change/add values like the AI aggression factor. You don't even need to change that much...some Catholic heresies, for instance, differed from Catholicism on matters of Christology and nothing else. What mattered is that their dogma differed.
When a heresy appears, give it a name. Perhaps it's a name derived from its founder (such as how Waldensian or Nestorian got their names), or perhaps it chooses from a series of possible options set in the parent religion (with variations).
And there you have a heresy. One that a player could even potentially construct for themselves in the Ruler Designer if they wanted to begin as one -- like other things in the Ruler Designer, there could be relative values for each religion trait so one couldn't stack a heresy with the best of everything.
Heresies That Spread
So a heresy has spawned in a specific province -- that's its first stronghold (heretic_stronghold already being a modifier the game uses). It will be very hard to eliminate in a stronghold province, but it shouldn't be impossible.
It will need a Heresy Strength -- either that or use its MA -- that determines the distance from the stronghold a character or province will need to be in order to switch to the heresy. There are already events for heresies to spread to neighboring provinces...so, as the heresy spreads, its strength (of MA) increases. Which increases the distance where it can spawn new heretics, etc. Provided the strength is at a certain level, it will have the ability to spawn a new stronghold province, which extends its reach. Perhaps the strength even determines how strong their rebellions are (and the strength is reduced if the rebellion is defeated, even if the heresy isn't defeated entirely).
If a ruler crushes a heresy's last stronghold, it's defeated. For good...or almost for good. It remains in the files, and can resurface after a certain number of years (heresies often did that, though sometimes under new names).
Does That Mean We Can't Have Catharism?
Not at all. There's no reason some heresies couldn't be pre-defined...or events made that prompted them to be created under certain conditions. Is it the 12th century, with Catholic MA at the right level and no current stronghold within range of Toulouse? Then there's an event and Catharism is either created in that event or placed with the pre-defined values -- done.
That would have the excellent side-benefit of not encountering historical heresies far outside of when they should appear. Not everyone cares about ahistorical events (and CK2 is built upon it, to a point), but if one knows anything about the heresy at all it's really strange to see, say, Lollards popping up in Spain in the 8th century.
Content For Heresies
Would it be nice to have content specific to heresies, such as special decisions? Cathar becoming Perfecti or Hurufis composing poetry? Sure. With some pre-defined heresies, that could even be done. But, short of Paradox wanting to create such content (which they don't seem wont to do), it would still be nice to have some content which would apply across all heresies equally...particularly if they provide "goalposts" for players to reach if they happen to be heretics:
Could all this be done? Sure -- depending on whether or not Paradox was willing to do it. Personally, I think that whether or not CK2 is all about the crusades, it certainly revolves around religion as one of its central pillars no matter what part of the world you're playing in. It would be nice if that pillar could have a bit more depth, or at least have a bit more of a "system" to it then the end result right now, which is that heresies seem mostly random and the player plays whack-a-mole on rebellions until they go away.
Regardless, these are just thoughts. Feel free to contribute your own.
- Heresies appear anywhere, at any time.
- A heresy can never be truly wiped out, nor do they have a sense of rising or falling.
- Unless content is specifically made for a heresy, they don't do much other than cause problems.
- Either a religion has a heresy coded, or none can appear.
Heresies That Can Be Created
Consider this: rather than having a heresy be a specific thing and only that, have a heresy that is "constructed" when MA is below a certain level. All religions are formed of a series of traits such as can_retire_to_monastery and female_temple_holders...all that's required for a heresy to be a heresy is that its traits differ from its parent's. Randomly remove some, or add traits the parent doesn't have. Change/add values like the AI aggression factor. You don't even need to change that much...some Catholic heresies, for instance, differed from Catholicism on matters of Christology and nothing else. What mattered is that their dogma differed.
When a heresy appears, give it a name. Perhaps it's a name derived from its founder (such as how Waldensian or Nestorian got their names), or perhaps it chooses from a series of possible options set in the parent religion (with variations).
And there you have a heresy. One that a player could even potentially construct for themselves in the Ruler Designer if they wanted to begin as one -- like other things in the Ruler Designer, there could be relative values for each religion trait so one couldn't stack a heresy with the best of everything.
Heresies That Spread
So a heresy has spawned in a specific province -- that's its first stronghold (heretic_stronghold already being a modifier the game uses). It will be very hard to eliminate in a stronghold province, but it shouldn't be impossible.
It will need a Heresy Strength -- either that or use its MA -- that determines the distance from the stronghold a character or province will need to be in order to switch to the heresy. There are already events for heresies to spread to neighboring provinces...so, as the heresy spreads, its strength (of MA) increases. Which increases the distance where it can spawn new heretics, etc. Provided the strength is at a certain level, it will have the ability to spawn a new stronghold province, which extends its reach. Perhaps the strength even determines how strong their rebellions are (and the strength is reduced if the rebellion is defeated, even if the heresy isn't defeated entirely).
If a ruler crushes a heresy's last stronghold, it's defeated. For good...or almost for good. It remains in the files, and can resurface after a certain number of years (heresies often did that, though sometimes under new names).
Does That Mean We Can't Have Catharism?
Not at all. There's no reason some heresies couldn't be pre-defined...or events made that prompted them to be created under certain conditions. Is it the 12th century, with Catholic MA at the right level and no current stronghold within range of Toulouse? Then there's an event and Catharism is either created in that event or placed with the pre-defined values -- done.
That would have the excellent side-benefit of not encountering historical heresies far outside of when they should appear. Not everyone cares about ahistorical events (and CK2 is built upon it, to a point), but if one knows anything about the heresy at all it's really strange to see, say, Lollards popping up in Spain in the 8th century.
Content For Heresies
Would it be nice to have content specific to heresies, such as special decisions? Cathar becoming Perfecti or Hurufis composing poetry? Sure. With some pre-defined heresies, that could even be done. But, short of Paradox wanting to create such content (which they don't seem wont to do), it would still be nice to have some content which would apply across all heresies equally...particularly if they provide "goalposts" for players to reach if they happen to be heretics:
- Getting a Religion Head: rather than the heresy starting off with a religion head, allow them the ability to establish one. If the heresy acquires a ruler of sufficient strength, allow them to get to the point where they can create_title and provide a religion head for the heresy. Perhaps doing that would first require levels of "organizing" the heresy first...establishing a dogma, establishing a proper priesthood, etc.
- Becoming a non-Heresy: Why not? Why must all heresies be dedicated solely to replacing their parent? That fits for some (Fraticelli comes to mind), but other heresies are different enough that their end goal would likely have been to follow suit with, say, Nestorian or Miaphysitism -- both of which were, in game terms, once heresies -- and establish themselves as non-heresies within the same religion group. "Breaking Away" may require a big war, and a proper religion head, but there's no reason that couldn't be done...and it would allow them to then acquire heresies of their own.
Could all this be done? Sure -- depending on whether or not Paradox was willing to do it. Personally, I think that whether or not CK2 is all about the crusades, it certainly revolves around religion as one of its central pillars no matter what part of the world you're playing in. It would be nice if that pillar could have a bit more depth, or at least have a bit more of a "system" to it then the end result right now, which is that heresies seem mostly random and the player plays whack-a-mole on rebellions until they go away.
Regardless, these are just thoughts. Feel free to contribute your own.
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