Idea Choices for Florence --> Tuscany --> Italy?

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Cathal341

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Playing as Florence and I just unlocked my first Idea Group and I'm not sure what to go for. I was thinking Admin or Influence. Some tips for future idea groups would also be appreciated.
 

Cathal341

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influence --> offensive --> admin --> quality/defensive

probably the best 4 idea groups to start with ;)
Thanks. Probably what I would've went for in the end but it's good to get a second opinion on it.
 

Andredie45

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I'd go admin first to counter the insane coring costs in Northern Italy.
 
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Cathal341

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I'd go admin first to counter the insane coring costs in Northern Italy.
Yea but currently my plan is to eat the pope and go south to start into Naples before Castile gets the Iberian Wedding and I have to fight Naples, Aragon and whatever Allies they have. Still not cheap, but cheaper that Northern Italy at least.
 
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pescinese97

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I'm going too with the same florence->italy run
I guess we all do agree that influence has to be the first, then i'd say admin then quantity (sooner or later you'll have to fight blobbing nations with big stacks, I guess)
Offensive is another option but only if you feel confident with your alliance net, and so you want a better, nor bigger, army
From there on I know nothing
 

Cathal341

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I'm going too with the same florence->italy run
I guess we all do agree that influence has to be the first, then i'd say admin then quantity (sooner or later you'll have to fight blobbing nations with big stacks, I guess)
Offensive is another option but only if you feel confident with your alliance net, and so you want a better, nor bigger, army
From there on I know nothing
By the time you reach your 4th Idea Group I feel like Italy should more or less be under your control, so It's whatever you feel like after that. Maybe Exploration then Trade to start milking the riches of The New World.
 
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pphair

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I always go Admin>Defensive>Religious(for eating Ottos)>Offensive>Whatever.
I'd normally form Italy around 1530. Personally I don't like Influence or Quantity because I don't use vassals and Tuscan/Italian ideas have good manpower boosts.
Mercs are easy to afford in Italy because its filthy rich also.
 
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Bouchart

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Start with a no-CB war on Granada and go Exploration as your first idea group.
 
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Cathal341

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Start with a no-CB war on Granada and go Exploration as your first idea group.
Not needed, I have no immediate desire to colonize so waiting til later should be perfectly fine since I'll have higher level Dip Tec for the reach and there's plenty of land in the New World so no need to worry about the big colonizers grabbing it all, especially if they get tied up in Europe.
 

Xinkc

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I wouldn't go for Quantity as Florence. Mercs are easy for the Italians and taking most north Italian provinces will be so expensive with AE even after Shadow Kingdom that taking more than a province or two at a time will require the waiting game.
 
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atwix

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Influence will give you less ae, less diplo annexation costfor vassals, and admin will give you -coring cost and less maintenance for mercs.

As Florence is in end node, you can conquer genoa trade node.

One thing worth mentioning: wait to conquer north italy until shadow kingdom fires. Go for genoa and provence (great nations to vassalise or to expand coring range from with remote port provinces), and open up fronts in France/iberia/black sea/ottomans thanks to invasions of genoa and provence.

Why do i say this? Because this style of campaign justifies taking religious as SECOND idea group, or even FIRST. And then go for italy provinces after reformation, and use holy war on all heretics that pop in italy!!

But a 'normal' italy campaign would benefir from influence and admin best I think..
 
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Dustman

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Influence if you going for HRE members, since one province w/o a core could mean coalition. Since Florence got wonderful MP saving ideas and can sit on 6-6-6 rulers for a while, going to Tuscany or simply lowering your RT enough, one can get Aristo second, for wonderful Aristo/Diplo policy, giving +0.4 RT for 1 mil point per month. Having good rulers and no regencies is golden. And Influence/Aristo allow for switch to oligarchy.
 

Benghi Bon

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I feel like Influence, then Admin, then Offensive would be your best bet. Admin second so you can reach it faster but a third doesn't seem too bed. Thing is, -25% coring cost is so helpful to conserve power. But, Influence is ... such a must-have in the current patch where AE is a tremendously large limiter.
 

Martin_Mortyry

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  1. Influence or diplomatic - of these I'd rather go with the first one, considering the massive AE you can gather in Northern Italy, especially before the Shadow Kingdom.
  2. Plutocratic - take it ASAP, unless you're not rushing to form Tuscany. This group is simply too good to ignore it.
  3. Admin - coring Italy will be pain without it. And hey, you don't have to rely on your manpower reserves with this idea!
  4. Something from MIL groups, preferably offensive, unless you want to improve your navy a little as well - in that case, go quality.
 
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Preface: Don't conquer Rome early when you are Catholic or NOT Italy, you will gain -10 to yearly Papal influence, therefore not any bonus for you

1st idea ==> Admin 2 (3) = rush to open the second idea group = complete (you need to lower coring cost of Italy, and btw do not rush to kill OPMs let them develop for you)

2nd idea ==> Defensive 4 (5) = take mill tech 9 = complete (you have a burden of military points; army tradition and 15% morale as the first and second ideas in Defensive are superior to 5% discipline as a finisher in Offensive at this stage)
OR

2nd idea ==> Plutocratic full (only if you plan to stay a Republic, you may consider full Plutocratic, you will lag behind Mil9 with tactics advantage, and you won't be able to wage wars on par, but this will work for you = AE will decrease)

In the meantime:
bump all your dip in production in worthy provinces

3rd idea ==> Religious 1 (4) = for Deus Vult against non-catholic and missionary bonus against heathens (when you are Catholic, you gain even less AE when conquering Protestants/Reformed; don't bother to complete the idea group early; before changing religion don't bother converting heretics, only do that for heathens of Africa, Egypt, Arabia, Crimea Anatolia, etc. so that you will have easier times in future)

4th idea ==> Influence 4 (5) = time to change religion into Protestant or Reformed (at your discretion) and conquer Rome (now you need to watch for your AE closely, therefore vassals become more useful for reclaiming their lands for Less AE; don't forget to convert them into your religion)


P.S.
Why not Influence at start?
With changes to AE reduction, having a claim does not result in less AE.
Moreover, as I have noticed, if you with your vassal (who has cores in your enemy) joined or started war against that enemy WITHOUT Reconquest Casus Beli, returning vassals core will result in FULL AE.
So for previously popular vassal feeding, you won't be able to conquer AE-free lands when your enemy joins your another war.
The multi vassal-feeding tactics is still viable if you fight heretics/heathens, so that you don't bother with religion problems. Just don't convert them to your religion early unless they take religious. Or, for digging into Nothern Africa with increased coring cost = just wait until the Tunisian, Tangerian, Morrocan cores disappear, and then integrate :)
 
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LS22

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Yea but currently my plan is to eat the pope and go south to start into Naples before Castile gets the Iberian Wedding and I have to fight Naples, Aragon and whatever Allies they have. Still not cheap, but cheaper that Northern Italy at least.
Or do what i did: ally with the BBB. :)
 

Ameron

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Yea but currently my plan is to eat the pope and go south to start into Naples before Castile gets the Iberian Wedding and I have to fight Naples, Aragon and whatever Allies they have. Still not cheap, but cheaper that Northern Italy at least.
If you can comfortably deal with the Iberians, it's better to pick just one neapolitan core and release it as a vassal when Aragon integrates the PU. This way you'll take the rest with reconquest CB.
Meanwhile focus on conquering the Papal State and Venice. If you're fast you can even stop the Shadow Kingdom event (though you may want to stay out of HRE, depends on your goals)
 

YuriiH

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when Aragon integrates the PU. This way you'll take the rest with reconquest CB.
Well, it's not that reliable. Aragon usually (in 70% games, I think) ends either crushed or under PU of Castille.

In my opinion, the best way to avoid AE early before Shadow Kingdom leaves HRE, is to prioritise:
Ferrara - Papal State / Provence - Hungary (releasing vassals Croatia, Transylvania, Styria)
Venice / Naples + Aragon (releasing vassals Sicily and Catalonia)

And again, no need to bother with Italian OPMs. They develop their provinces and make better land to conquer later on. One may even want to release them in peace deals :)
 
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Cathal341

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Lots of people suggesting Plutocratic, which I had completely forgot about. I may well take it second (as I've already picked Influence as the first) but then again is it still worth it since I plan on forming Tuscany once I hit Admin 10 and playing the HRE game for a bit (Haven't really played around in it for about 2 updates now) because I was thinking of picking up either A Kaiser not Just in Name or Ruina Imperii ---> Mare Nostrum. Religious is also popping up a lot but I think I'll leave it til 3rd or maybe even 4th once the reformation hits since I have no intentions in warring the Ottomans/North Africans early on (It will definitely be a must if I decide to go for Mare Nostrum tho). At the moment I'm thinking
1. Influence (Already Taken)
2. Plutocratic or Admin
3. Whatever I don't pick for number 2 or Offensive
4. Religious
5. Exploration
6. Trade
After that I'm not too sure probably groups that are just generally good no matter what (Economic, Innovative, Quality, Espionage etc.)