Idea: Airbase load level

[Alex_brunius]

There have been some talk about airmissions and airbases. But IIRC nothing yet really as to how airbase size will limit operations.

In HoI2 airbase size mattered very little, Its only effect was on org recovery but your aircrafts could basically fire with full force as long as they had a single org left. Because of damage not beeing spread properly out among the aircrafts the practical result often was that 1 airwing of 4 took all damage anyway and it mattered little what org levels were since that one wing could not fire anyway (org depleated) but the other 3 airwings could fire just as good with 1 org as with 50 org.

So what needs to change?


Lets first talk about the org. I belive there is nothing wrong with having airbase size limit org recovery, but org must matter. IF damage among airplanes are spread out more evenly (or at least randomly) org will matter much more. Airwings with low org would quickly become depleated again if they encounter resistance and thus not able to fight further.
Suggestion: Make sure damage to aircrafts are better spread out.


In my opinion we should also introduce something I call airbase load level. The airbase size does not limit how many airplanes you can store there at all (they can be placed in any nearby field). What airbase size does limit however is how many aircraft you can operate or use from that airfield at the same time. And here we face the problem that bombers/transports usually are much more clumsy, require longer/better runway and more time to takeoff and land. So an airwing of strategic bombers should increase the load level of an airport much more than an airwing of fighters. The load level is supposed to simulate that you can only fly so many sorties per day from certain airfields without expanding them.
Suggestion: Introduce another value on airbases called "load level". The maximum load level is determined by (airbase level) x (doctrine modifyer). Each airwing thats activily using the airbase (not reserves or airwings with to low org/str) will add its fuel consumtion to the load level and no further airwings can be launched when maximum load level is reached.


With load levels it would be much easier to simulate other things such as strategic airsupply and strategic airlifts. Transport airwings (thats usually though of as being made up of more than 100 airplanes) would add much more to load levels, and these efforts would be harshly (and realistically) limited too be carried out between two major airbases that have few other operations ongoing.

Load level could either be displayed as a % value calculated automatically and adding very little complexity for the average player. Or as an x/y ratio similair to airbase size.

 

[Bullfrog]

You could really just cut "org" out altogether, and replace it with serviceable aircraft. Doctrines would effect efficiency directly, and it would be more HoI -ish

 

[unmerged(55919)]

Excellent suggestion for an air base load level.

Another thing that is odd in HoI2 that hopefully is addressed in HoI3 is the quick turn times between missions and ORG decreases. In HoI2 aircraft fly long missions, return to base, and they are airborne again in only a few hours (and keep this up indefinitely with no direct loss in ORG). This only make sense if a mission represents only a portion of an air wing airborne at any one time but long term ORG should still go down as the planes get worn out from constant use, even with no resistance. If ORG was decreased on every mission then ORG recovery rates would be much more important. Have ORG recovery balance out with this normal decrease, if the air base is not overloaded, but not be able to keep up as more aircraft crowd the air bases. Overcrowded bases flying constant missions would soon stop operations because all the units would have 0 ORG.

I would also suggest some impact of lower ORG on combat effectiveness. A full strength air wing at 50% ORG is not as effective in its assigned mission and that should be represented somehow.

 

[Delta107]

In HoI2 airbase size mattered very little, Its only effect was on org recovery but your aircrafts could basically fire with full force as long as they had a single org left.

I don't agree. In HOI2 if you runway crater enemies bases and win a few battles they won't be able to recover. And you'll control the skies.

 

[Alex_brunius]

I don't agree. In HOI2 if you runway crater enemies bases and win a few battles they won't be able to recover. And you'll control the skies.

Its somewhat more balanced when it comes to air vs air compared to air vs ground. The damage is a little bit more spread out there so org will matter to some extent. But not as much as it should.
If you have better doctrines and fighters + more of them then 1 org is still enough to defeat their airforce no matter if they are based in 5 lvl 10 airbases and your airforce operates from a single lvl 1 field. They are unlikely to be able to target all your planes and unless targeted they don't take any damage at all and thus fire at full efficiency. 2-3 days later you will have one org and repeat the procedure, in a few runs you will own the skies.

The problem with your argument is that "win a few battles" got no connection with airbase level. 20airwings can operate from 1 lvl 1 airfield and win.

But ok, Ill rephrase it then. In HoI2 airbase sice mattered too little in air vs air, and almost nothing in air vs ground warfare.

 

[Black Lotus]

It should also be included that if you have a large amount of aircraft at a base, the more damage they'll take from ground or air attacks, reason being that if the base is overloaded they'll most likely be packed together, causing collateral damage to each other.

 

[Luka]

I think that air combat is probably the most important improvement paradox can make to the HoI series. It seems so fundamentally flawed in HoI1 & 2 that I'll only brethe a sign of releif when we get a dev diary on the subject.

 

[Wildcat_PL]

How about limiting the maximum size of an air base for province. Naturally all inland provinces could have a max 10 but then we could limit islands due to the real size and terrain. Another limit would be a moddable number, f.e 4. If Airbase is a level 3 only small one engine planes could operate from it. But when u build up the base to level 4 then u could base tactical, naval and strategic bombers. This would be an elegant solution, and would make pacific island-hopping much more strategic.

 

[dsteve3]

I was thinking that a geometric scale for airbase construction might solve some of the problems, with limits placed on larger air frames on a minimum-sized air base.

A level 1 air field can be constructed in (lets say) 2 weeks. But only small, non-jet air craft can launch from there. Level 2 airfield would take an additional 2.5 weeks to build, level 3 +3 weeks, etc. Medium bombers would require a minimum level 3 or 4 air field, transports, jet aircraft and strategic bombers a lvl 5 or 6 minimum.

If we could slap down lvl 1 air fields in a couple weeks, it would make it alot easier to move small aircraft units forward more quickly. If we limit the size that larger aircraft units need, it would promote the value of small aircraft.

As it is now, I hardly ever use CAS as they are almost useless outside of Europe, East Asia, and the eastern seaboard of the U.S. Can't use them in most islands as they can't reach the sea areas.