Iconoclast Patriarch

[Gunnarr]

I just converted to Iconoclasm, but there is no head of religion. I see no reason for there not to be, as there was no objection to the way the church was ruled, only that icons were heretical.

Is there a way so that, as I have converted to it, that it can have head of religion?

Well, what are my options for this?

(I am not sure if this should be in user modifications, so I posted it here too)

 

[Rougeman]

from what I've heard one of the patriarchs needs to be iconoclast

 

[Lorehead]

You can replace the Bishop of Constantinople with an Iconoclast and make him Lord Spiritual of the realm, but, in-game, it’s just inherently a decentralized religion that doesn’t excommunicate people or declare invasions.

 

[Gunnarr]

You can replace the Bishop of Constantinople with an Iconoclast and make him Lord Spiritual of the realm, but, in-game, it’s just inherently a decentralized religion that doesn’t excommunicate people or declare invasions.

that is disappointing... oh well

this thread may now be left to die, i have no more use of it

 

[Jeltz]

Still it would be nice if they improved the iconoclast heresy so you could get an iconoclast patriarch.

 

[Velorian]

AFAIK some of the Orthodox heresies are given the same abilities as the main faith, it SHOULD be as simple to mod as copying their abilities in the religion file onto the Iconoclast religion.

Taken from the 00_religions.txt :
Current Iconoclast:

	iconoclast = {
		graphical_culture = westerngfx

		icon = 7
		color = { 0.9 0.6 0.6 }
		parent = orthodox
	}

Current Nestorianism:

	nestorian = {
		graphical_culture = westerngfx

		icon = 7
		color = { 0.6 0.2 0.2 }
		parent = orthodox
		
		investiture = no
		autocephaly = yes
		can_excommunicate = yes
		can_grant_divorce = yes
		priests_can_marry = yes
		can_grant_invasion_cb = invasion
		can_grant_claim = yes
		can_call_crusade = no
	}

If you copy the last part of it from Nestorian to Iconoclast it would take on the same abilities as the main faith. They'll basically form a separate patriarchy.

 

[Ols]

I think the point of Iconoclast is that it's just a religion for an angry mob that likes to destroy religion symbols. Nestorianism is pretty much THE Orthodox heresy, and has the best starting situation with a few Nestorian provinces around and a few playable characters. Having a centralised Iconoclast religion would be somewhat weird, they really need different mechanics to a pentarchy and a single religious head.

 

[Velorian]

I think the point of Iconoclast is that it's just a religion for an angry mob that likes to destroy religion symbols. Nestorianism is pretty much THE Orthodox heresy, and has the best starting situation with a few Nestorian provinces around and a few playable characters. Having a centralised Iconoclast religion would be somewhat weird, they really need different mechanics to a pentarchy and a single religious head.

Well they were historically supported by an emperor and plenty of clergy, if we imagined a scenario where they had won the dispute over legitimacy I can't see why they wouldn't have organized themselves in a similar way to the mainstream Orthodoxy. They essentially just had a pet peeve about images, not a problem with the organized leadership of their religion as such.

 

[Jeltz]

I think the point of Iconoclast is that it's just a religion for an angry mob that likes to destroy religion symbols. Nestorianism is pretty much THE Orthodox heresy, and has the best starting situation with a few Nestorian provinces around and a few playable characters. Having a centralised Iconoclast religion would be somewhat weird, they really need different mechanics to a pentarchy and a single religious head.

Iconoclasm in the Byzantine Empire was not a simple angry mob religion. There were both Iconoclast Emperors and Patriarchs. And as for mobs, there were both Iconoclast and Iconophile mobs. I do not think the Iconoclasts ever disputed the authority of the ecumenical patriarch. What they did though was exile a couple of them for opposing the emperor and then install own iconoclast patriarchs.

 

[Lorehead]

The game seems to be hardcoded so that the Ecumenical Patriarch can’t be an iconoclast. I suppose what you could do is convert the Orthodox (or at least the holdouts) into icon-venerating heretics, then convert the Iconoclasts into the new Orthodox, as they become the state religion now.

 

[jordarkelf]

The game seems to be hardcoded so that the Ecumenical Patriarch can’t be an iconoclast. I suppose what you could do is convert the Orthodox (or at least the holdouts) into icon-venerating heretics, then convert the Iconoclasts into the new Orthodox, as they become the state religion now.

It's not hardcoded to exclude iconoclasts, but since k_orthodox is defined as head of the orthodox faith it won't allow non-orthodox holders. Same for the other religious heads.

If you want an iconoclast patriarch, you need to create a new entry in landed_titles for d_iconoclast (clone from d_nestorian), make sure it is defined as the head of the iconoclast faith (controls_religion = iconclast), and create localization and a flag file for it.
Same for the other heresies.

 

[unmerged(492249)]

No modding here, just a claimant war followed by a catholic invasion.

Long story short: the byzzie under a crappy basileus got stomped by Muslims, as usual. So I invited the brother of the basileus, demanded him to covert to Catholicism, and push his strong claim on byzzie. Success! And the new basileus was as crappy as his deposed brother. In Rome, the pope was abhorred by the news that a hedonist, lustful, gluttonous cynic ascended the throne of a "major catholic power". When I asked a permission to invade, the Holy Father happily granted his blessing after just 3 days of consideration. So it began.

After the dirty works, the Ecumenical Patriarch and the varangian guards became my new vassal. I tried to convert the Patriarch to Catholicism for giggles, but all attempts failed:

Finally, I gave up. It seems the religion of the heads of religion is indeed hardcoded. You cannot use court chaplains to convert them, demand their conversion, or use console to change religion when playing as one of them. Then the old Patriarch died of natural causes and succeed by a nobody. I paid no attention to the Ecumenical Patriarch again until one day...

Well, that's funny.

To the OP:

Since Iconoclast has no head of religion, you can't get the necessary invasion cb. If you want to use the method described above, you have to mod the game as Velorian suggested.

Edit: Beyond my wildest expectation, the new Ecumenical Patriarch was a super badass, he captured booth Seljuk sultan and the Sunni caliph during the 2nd crusade for Jerusalem.

 

[Lorehead]

Tested. If you convert Constantinople, new courtiers in the Ecumenical Patriarch’s court will spawn as Iconoclasts, until one becomes Ecumenical Patriarch. The game will not object to this, and you can have an Iconoclast Ecumenical Patriarch as your Lord Spiritual. Easiest way to reproduce this: convert yourself with the religion cheat, convert your chaplain, put him to convert Constantinople, trigger (or wait for) event 900, kill the Ecumenical Patriarch (or wait for him to die).

He still won’t be your religious head, nor grant invasions.

 

[Velorian]

Tested. If you convert Constantinople, new courtiers in the Ecumenical Patriarch’s court will spawn as Iconoclasts, until one becomes Ecumenical Patriarch. The game will not object to this, and you can have an Iconoclast Ecumenical Patriarch as your Lord Spiritual. Easiest way to reproduce this: convert yourself with the religion cheat, convert your chaplain, put him to convert Constantinople, trigger (or wait for) event 900, kill the Ecumenical Patriarch (or wait for him to die).

He still won’t be your religious head, nor grant invasions.

That part is pretty easy to mod though.