Any chance of seeing the Icelandic republic from the Norse Heritage Overhaul make its way into HIP? Iceland is kind of the poor cousin in HIP right now...
it's a pity
it's a pity
- 3
- 2
Icelandic republic
- Thread starter The Guru
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I would think it will only be implemented if the creator of the Norse Heritage Overhaul Mod updates it to the latest HIP releases. It's not something that the HIP devs can just take and implement as they will.
- 1
Why make Iceland a republic? Iceland was rather a chiefdom before it was laid under the norwegian king.
- 2
Well, in a certain sense... The problem is that medieval "democracy" of that kind isn't well represented in game: Thing, Veche (in Northern Russia: Novgorod, Pskov, Polotsk), tribal "democracy" in the Norse and Baltic lands etc.
I think it would be better represented as elective monarchy than as merchant republic.
- 3
- 1
The only real issue with using the Merchant Republic to represent the Icelandic government is that it will expand its trade posts quite far in the late game, and provinces (like in northern Scotland and Ireland) may get an unwarranted boost. Other than that, the amount of currency going around up there is a small issue in general, and a minor issue would be that elections are only held upon death (a problem that is also true for Novgorod).
The biggest advantage of using the Merchant Republic is that it allows for a lot more depth and playability; it gives you an opportunity to play out the conflicts of the Sturlung Age, with feuding families and intrigue; the structure and the events of the Merchant Republic are surprisingly well suited for this. The election system, aside from the issue mentioned above, is not that far off: at least it favours the older family heads for the lawspeaker position which was ordinarily the case - of course there was no real governing power of the entirety of Iceland, and the lawspeaker position was more like an arbitrator or supreme judge with ceremonial duties, but this was probably true for most of the "Merchant Republics": the leader was the most senior elected official.
A more neutral approach would be to use the regular republic government, but that would make it unplayable unfortunately, and remove quite a few layers.
The biggest advantage of using the Merchant Republic is that it allows for a lot more depth and playability; it gives you an opportunity to play out the conflicts of the Sturlung Age, with feuding families and intrigue; the structure and the events of the Merchant Republic are surprisingly well suited for this. The election system, aside from the issue mentioned above, is not that far off: at least it favours the older family heads for the lawspeaker position which was ordinarily the case - of course there was no real governing power of the entirety of Iceland, and the lawspeaker position was more like an arbitrator or supreme judge with ceremonial duties, but this was probably true for most of the "Merchant Republics": the leader was the most senior elected official.
A more neutral approach would be to use the regular republic government, but that would make it unplayable unfortunately, and remove quite a few layers.
Last edited:
- 4
- 1
In my opinion in-game "tribal chiefdoms" don't offer proper portrayal of the political and social system of Iceland or any other early or high medieval Norse state.
- 2
It's something I plan to do at some point. It will be a little bit like starting over, except I have a few pieces that I can easily extract from the old version: one of those being the Icelandic Republic.
If I have decent modding skills, I would defiantly try to modify "merchant republic" (with its nice clan system) to some new alternative government form, illustrating the elective monarchies/chiefdoms with the traces of the popular assemblies (thing, veche) and popular "democracy", while cutting trade features (trade posts and related stuff).
- 5
I've ported the Icelandic republic from NHO to the newest version of HIP.
DOWNLOAD
NOTE:
- Some parts of it are not entirely as intended, mostly due to the lack of my Norse naming corrections; this means scripted character names and newly generated ones will be different.
- Includes some minor changes to other areas such as the Faroe Islands, Norse-Gaelic characters, titles, etc.
- Iceland is most interesting in the first part of the 13th century.
DOWNLOAD
NOTE:
- Some parts of it are not entirely as intended, mostly due to the lack of my Norse naming corrections; this means scripted character names and newly generated ones will be different.
- Includes some minor changes to other areas such as the Faroe Islands, Norse-Gaelic characters, titles, etc.
- Iceland is most interesting in the first part of the 13th century.
- 1
.png){kind=avatar}
Afraid all of that is virtually impossible, so if you had decent modding skills, it wouldn't make a difference.
- 1
I have gone over your character history work and title history work in particular and as most of it seemed quite good as far as i could confirm it, i have implemented 51 characters on Iceland and 4 on the Faroes Islands.
After discussing the pros and cons of turning Iceland into a republic, we have settled on that Feudal Elective would be a better choice for Iceland, so it will not be implemented into SWMH as a republic. Whether or not we will give the title d_iceland a lǫgsǫgumaðr special title remains to be seen. As far as i'm aware it would mean that holders of Iceland can't be Jarls, even if the island is subjugated from the outside. But Iceland has received a much needed facelift and Erilaz will of course receive proper credit when we finally release the next version of SWMH
After discussing the pros and cons of turning Iceland into a republic, we have settled on that Feudal Elective would be a better choice for Iceland, so it will not be implemented into SWMH as a republic. Whether or not we will give the title d_iceland a lǫgsǫgumaðr special title remains to be seen. As far as i'm aware it would mean that holders of Iceland can't be Jarls, even if the island is subjugated from the outside. But Iceland has received a much needed facelift and Erilaz will of course receive proper credit when we finally release the next version of SWMH
- 4
No
It should be pretty obvious since it is not being mentioned in the changelog. They are a part of the Beta branch i'm working in that will be the basis for the next major SWMH release.
New or tweaked SWMH content for this release was rather minor in comparison to what we've done before
It should be pretty obvious since it is not being mentioned in the changelog. They are a part of the Beta branch i'm working in that will be the basis for the next major SWMH release.
New or tweaked SWMH content for this release was rather minor in comparison to what we've done before
Last edited:
- 1
That's a lite version then, I see, with only less than a third of the characters. Why did you cut away the rest? Did you 'normalise' the names?
I wonder, also, why you chose feudal elective rather than simply a non-merchant republic. Especially if you're going to use the lögsögumaðr title and the title history with the line of lawspeakers.
I wonder, also, why you chose feudal elective rather than simply a non-merchant republic. Especially if you're going to use the lögsögumaðr title and the title history with the line of lawspeakers.
Well i've given preference to title holders and males. I've also not used the entire period you've created characters for. I'm working on a timeline extension backwards at the moment for the entire map, so i don't have too much time to spend solely on Iceland and moving forwards at this point. The number of characters taken from your files will most likely increase at a later point, when any one of us have more time to spend on random projects.
Also, i left it very vague on purpose about using the Lawspeaker title right after finishing the work that day, because i was still only considering it. I have since then decided to not go with the native Lawspeaker title. And we chose the Feudal elective because we felt like it was the closest we could get to the actual conditions under the Republic with the CK2 mechanics. We discussed the pros and cons of turning it into a republic, but none of us felt like the case of Iceland fit the mechanics all that well and the elections didn't offer anything unique that we couldn't get from Feudal Elective
Last edited:
- 1
Fair enough. We can agree to disagree on that then ^^
I know that you've been working on expanding the timeline backwards a bit, and I haven't worked on the character and title history of Iceland pre-1066 that very much. If I'd known back when I was working on Iceland, I would have probably included a complete character and title history from the start of the Icelandic "republic" 'til the end, but I didn't know, and thought it would have been a waste of time. I'll probably expand it backwards when I have the time and energy to work on it thoroughly again, and I'd gladly help you expand your 'lite' version if you'd like.
I know that you've been working on expanding the timeline backwards a bit, and I haven't worked on the character and title history of Iceland pre-1066 that very much. If I'd known back when I was working on Iceland, I would have probably included a complete character and title history from the start of the Icelandic "republic" 'til the end, but I didn't know, and thought it would have been a waste of time. I'll probably expand it backwards when I have the time and energy to work on it thoroughly again, and I'd gladly help you expand your 'lite' version if you'd like.