Ic

[unmerged(77788)]

I believe is not exactly realistic to have (1936)
US 644 (very big) IC!!!
SU 250 (big)IC!!

Hungary+Yugoslavia+Greece+Romania+Bulgaria 50 IC total (only)! What are the Balkans?


China 11 IC!!(only)
How the chinese will resist?

 

[Lothos]

THose numbers are correct based on GDP also USA has a HUGE peacetime penalty so they do not get 644 IC in 1936.

 

[scubasteve1233]

it seems realistic, just not balanced

 

[Lothos]

it is balanced when you take in retrospect its a World simulator during the World War 2 time period

If your definition of balance is that you can play Albania and conquer the world then yea you are correct it is not balanced.



You have two sides to this argument, side 1 the game is not balanced because minors are almost unplayable. Side 2 the game is un balanced because minors can conquer the world or be major players in the war.

So no matter which way you go people will be un-happy. So the only logical conclusion is to stick to the facts. My philosophy since the begining was not to force balance into the game but as we implement economic historical facts into the game it will eventually balance itself out!

Which it has!

 

[unmerged(77788)]

it seems realistic, just not balanced

NO

DD is half-realistic but balanced
This Mod is not realistic and not balanced!

I haven't researched to find out if the US industry was that strong(650 ic) and China so weak (11ic) but the IC represents how much army you can make and supply (in that game). In this game the economic capabilities of a country depend only(almost) on IC something that is wrong if you think IRAQ that 95% of its income was from oil (same about Venezuela,IRAN,...).
In the HOI2 DD the minors are given much more IC than in the reality (for balance reasons) but they are not given more resources to sell as they do. In fact in DD if you get a minor country you will find yourself buying metal from Germany!!!!! However in the WWI,WWII Germany was the country that asked for tones of rare materials and metal.
So to be balanced is needed:
1)better distribution of raw materials (more to minors-Africa has for some sort of reason no raw materials!)
2)cheaper weapon-material exchanges(the ai never gives you guns-divs) so that the minors can have army without much IC
3)less IC to the minors but not so. (China-->11IC!!!!!!)

 

[unmerged(77788)]

it is balanced when you take in retrospect its a World simulator during the World War 2 time period

If your definition of balance is that you can play Albania and conquer the world then yea you are correct it is not balanced.



You have two sides to this argument, side 1 the game is not balanced because minors are almost unplayable. Side 2 the game is un balanced because minors can conquer the world or be major players in the war.

So no matter which way you go people will be un-happy. So the only logical conclusion is to stick to the facts. My philosophy since the begining was not to force balance into the game but as we implement economic historical facts into the game it will eventually balance itself out!

Which it has!

I don't want to conquer the world with Albania
The DD is in the middle of these sides, I think.

 

[unmerged(56051)]

The game actually seems very balanced(Im talking as a person who PLAYED)
China actually fights very hard and has tons of divisions(I have no idea how they supply them. Im sure lothos has the answer)
Germany vs USSR is very nice too(although the Soviets do manage to increase their amounts of divisions to unbelivable sized such as 700 divisions by the and of a HISTORICAL war, although Im sure there is a reason for that)

I realy think that lothos had put some effort in every important country so that IC wont be everything, like it is in the vanilla. The example Ive seen is the boost for Soviet winter capabilities.
Im sure he made something with China(perhaps cheap and easy to supply divisions?)
and something with USSR(it seems they have some discount, but at some cost of effectiveness)

Anyway, I realy want to hear what lothos has to say about what he did with making nations "unique" and balanced.

 

[unmerged(77788)]

The game actually seems very balanced(Im talking as a person who PLAYED)
China actually fights very hard and has tons of divisions(I have no idea how they supply them. Im sure lothos has the answer)
Germany vs USSR is very nice too(although the Soviets do manage to increase their amounts of divisions to unbelivable sized such as 700 divisions by the and of a HISTORICAL war, although Im sure there is a reason for that)

I realy think that lothos had put some effort in every important country so that IC wont be everything, like it is in the vanilla. The example Ive seen is the boost for Soviet winter capabilities.
Im sure he made something with China(perhaps cheap and easy to supply divisions?)
and something with USSR(it seems they have some discount, but at some cost of effectiveness)

Anyway, I realy want to hear what lothos has to say about what he did with making nations "unique" and balanced.

Thanks for the answer.

To say the truth I've never played this mod and propably China resists(I don't know how -you said this)
In fact I've not played for two reasons:
1)IC
2)tech-you must research all techs from the beginning either you are at 1936 or 1944. I don't like to play Germany in 1939 and can't produce any tanks. I believe that this has been done due to lack of time.

As for the discounts there is a promblem:unless they change after the WWII ,AI will continue to produce tons and tons. For example it won't be correct if SU continues to make 200 div a year or more after the war. In the case the outcome of WWII isn't the real one then how much the discounts will change?

I believe that the game would be better with the 3 changes that I've said in my previous post. (plz read them)

I will play it ,in future, to see if you have right.

If I like something in this mod this is the graphics. Is there a way to have these graphics in the original DD?

 

[Hallsten]

Thanks for the answer.

To say the truth I've never played this mod and propably China resists(I don't know how -you said this)
In fact I've not played for two reasons:
1)IC
2)tech-you must research all techs from the beginning either you are at 1936 or 1944. I don't like to play Germany in 1939 and can't produce any tanks. I believe that this has been done due to lack of time.

As for the discounts there is a promblem:unless they change after the WWII ,AI will continue to produce tons and tons. For example it won't be correct if SU continues to make 200 div a year or more after the war. In the case the outcome of WWII isn't the real one then how much the discounts will change?

I believe that the game would be better with the 3 changes that I've said in my previous post. (plz read them)

I will play it ,in future, to see if you have right.

If I like something in this mod this is the graphics. Is there a way to have these graphics in the original DD?

I say: Play first and judge later! Lothos didn't make these changes without a reason, and he definitely knows what he's doing!
Having played as China I can tell you that it's NOT unplayable and although Japan/Kwantung gives you a run for your money you'll beat them eventually.
Still, this is a mod best enjoyed playing a major, and as such it's the best I've played.

 

[Lothos]

China is able to resist because their Land Doctrine is based on the Guerrilla line warfare which means their troops are not as good as lets say Japans but require literally no supplies to maintain them (very very little) because they forage for most of what they need.


EDITED: Another note you CAN NOT compare TRP to Vanilla Doomsday/Armageddon. They have NOTHING in common! TRP has changed so many rules within the game from top to bottom that to even try and compare the two withought even playing is an insult to everyone who has put time into TRP. You are talking roughly 5 years worth of work here and you come to this forum and have the AUDACITY to make demands for changes if not you wont even TRY the mod out!

DON'T PLAY THE MOD THEN!

TRP over the last 5 years has been download over 40,000 times so obviously we did something right!

 

[unmerged(56051)]

China is able to resist because their Land Doctrine is based on the Guerrilla line warfare which means their troops are not as good as lets say Japans but require literally no supplies to maintain them (very very little) because they forage for most of what they need.


EDITED: Another note you CAN NOT compare TRP to Vanilla Doomsday/Armageddon. They have NOTHING in common! TRP has changed so many rules within the game from top to bottom that to even try and compare the two withought even playing is an insult to everyone who has put time into TRP. You are talking roughly 5 years worth of work here and you come to this forum and have the AUDACITY to make demands for changes if not you wont even TRY the mod out!

DON'T PLAY THE MOD THEN!

TRP over the last 5 years has been download over 40,000 times so obviously we did something right!

Oh yes! The new Guerilla Inf tech tree, I should have known .
What about the Soviets? I dont believe they created 600 divisions in 3 years
in my game. :S

 

[Hallsten]

Oh yes! The new Guerilla Inf tech tree, I should have known .
What about the Soviets? I dont believe they created 600 divisions in 3 years
in my game. :S

Which TRP version was that?
In 0.91.1 they're building like MAD. After the winter there's a whole new, full strength, Red Army waiting for you...

 

[unmerged(56051)]

Which TRP version was that?
In 0.91.1 they're building like MAD. After the winter there's a whole new, full strength, Red Army waiting for you...

Yes, They're definately building like MAD!
It does get a little weird for me when the numbers reach to 800+ divisions by 1945. Balanced WW3 is already hard to achieve in this game, and Im afraid the SU has become even more "steamroller" than before. How can anything stop those masses?

 

[Lothos]

Will have to look into this further it could be an issue of the Patriotic War event not recinding properly which is why the soviets can field so much.

 

[unmerged(77788)]

China is able to resist because their Land Doctrine is based on the Guerrilla line warfare which means their troops are not as good as lets say Japans but require literally no supplies to maintain them (very very little) because they forage for most of what they need.


EDITED: Another note you CAN NOT compare TRP to Vanilla Doomsday/Armageddon. They have NOTHING in common! TRP has changed so many rules within the game from top to bottom that to even try and compare the two withought even playing is an insult to everyone who has put time into TRP. You are talking roughly 5 years worth of work here and you come to this forum and have the AUDACITY to make demands for changes if not you wont even TRY the mod out!

DON'T PLAY THE MOD THEN!

TRP over the last 5 years has been download over 40,000 times so obviously we did something right!

I din't insulted you I just writed what I thought-i recognize the work-I really do. Sorry if you were insulted.

 

[unmerged(81516)]

Yes, They're definately building like MAD!
It does get a little weird for me when the numbers reach to 800+ divisions by 1945. Balanced WW3 is already hard to achieve in this game, and Im afraid the SU has become even more "steamroller" than before. How can anything stop those masses?

Actually that is not a bit weird. By the end of The War the Russians had a little more than 20 million men, that would compromise exactly 1000 divisions(Including armoured, mechanized, motorized etc.). Russia had very many armoured and mechanized troops. The Russians had the worlds largest panzer force in the world, and they still have!

 

[unmerged(81516)]

Will have to look into this further it could be an issue of the Patriotic War event not recinding properly which is why the soviets can field so much.

There is nothing you have to look into, they are supposed to field more.

 

[unmerged(80181)]

Actually that is not a bit weird. By the end of The War the Russians had a little more than 20 million men, that would compromise exactly 1000 divisions(Including armoured, mechanized, motorized etc.). Russia had very many armoured and mechanized troops. The Russians had the worlds largest panzer force in the world, and they still have!

Wrong!The SU army in the end of the war wasn't higher than 6,5 million people.In the time from 1941 to 1945 nearly 15 million died.20 million army in game can be accomplished only if SU don't lose even one division in game.But in one save I look(it was 1944 or so)they have 9999 manpower and more than 370 divisions.It is a bit unrealistic to have SU with 1000 divisions as this will greatly damage the TC and they shouldn't be moving at all.In 1945 SU will have a little than 400 divisions.As in 1944 scenario.

 

[Minodrin]

I agree that it's realistic that the USSR isn't an infinite manpower pool. Sure, they had double the amount of people compared to Germany, and were willing to sacrifice much more to get more men on the front, but not endless amounts.

No 9999 manpower please.

 

[Lothos]

I have never seen 99999 manpower for the soviets what version of TRP are you guys talking about cause these numbers seem a bit absurd as I have never seen any of it.