Gurag said:
I like this idea as well, having to micromanage all of your different factories and the parts they are making seems like ALOT of uneccessary micro-management.
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I like this idea as well, having to micromanage all of your different factories and the parts they are making seems like ALOT of uneccessary micro-management.
Keep the generic IC attached to pronvinces, but add an allocation feature. Split the total IC into different categories, for instance:
Air, Naval, Vehicle, Munitions, Supplies (food, clothing, fuel production, anything not covered by the other four)
Each is assigned a percentage by the player of the total IC. Changing these percentages causes a retooling penalty that lowers overall IC production for a period of time (retooling penalty and duration can be reduced through research, government type or nationality).
Each brigade/unit type in the game is made up of these 5 resource or production types. For instance, a tank brigade may consist of 70/20/10 Veh/Mun/Sup. Production time can be affected by the percentage of IC devoted to these types and how important they are for that particular brigade. Overall division production is affected by the production times of its individual brigades.
You can change the production/resource types, but the connection to unit makeup is the key. Whatever mix you come up with, production time should depend what types are being emphasized and what percentage of that type constitutes the unit. That way one can truly focus their industry on a particular unit type.
Notice that munitions and supplies/other should make up a portion of every unit. So, while their percentages per unit may be smaller, they are part of everything and remain very important (EDIT: and constitute the bulk of infantry units).
Also, create a research area for industry that not only allows for retooling efficiency, but allows the player to further focus their war efforts toward a particular field. Allow research to give production bonuses and improve the resulting equipment.
Air, Naval, Vehicle, Munitions, Supplies (food, clothing, fuel production, anything not covered by the other four)
Each is assigned a percentage by the player of the total IC. Changing these percentages causes a retooling penalty that lowers overall IC production for a period of time (retooling penalty and duration can be reduced through research, government type or nationality).
Each brigade/unit type in the game is made up of these 5 resource or production types. For instance, a tank brigade may consist of 70/20/10 Veh/Mun/Sup. Production time can be affected by the percentage of IC devoted to these types and how important they are for that particular brigade. Overall division production is affected by the production times of its individual brigades.
You can change the production/resource types, but the connection to unit makeup is the key. Whatever mix you come up with, production time should depend what types are being emphasized and what percentage of that type constitutes the unit. That way one can truly focus their industry on a particular unit type.
Notice that munitions and supplies/other should make up a portion of every unit. So, while their percentages per unit may be smaller, they are part of everything and remain very important (EDIT: and constitute the bulk of infantry units).
Also, create a research area for industry that not only allows for retooling efficiency, but allows the player to further focus their war efforts toward a particular field. Allow research to give production bonuses and improve the resulting equipment.
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Raczynski said:...This isn't represented in the game at all. Your armoured and air units can take horrendous loses - but fear not, in a week or two they will be restored to 100% strenght with... suppilies:rofl: ...
Don´t you have to allocate IC to reinforcement?
I mean plain "supplies" won´t do the job, do they?
Do I play a different game?
Granted, but not even half the way you made it seem to be ^^
I would like to try some vicky like factory system. A little easier maybe.
I would like to try some vicky like factory system. A little easier maybe.
For Free Market economies (ie. USA) you must place orders for supplies (Food, Ammo, Oil, etc), and weapons with a company (use the former tech teams?). So for example, playing as USA, I want to order 100 Sherman tanks to be built by Ford Motor Company and supplied by various companies with oil, spare parts, etc. USA must pay the company for this with $ from either taxing the population or War Bonds (borrowing). Since free market countries do not own the factories, they can't build them (Victoria?) but we would have events that would activate the "Arsenal of Democracy" when the USA mobilizes for war. There could be some type of plan (FDR's naval plan) event that would give more importance to naval building, etc. I just hope for free market the AI would be good enough to have more factories built in the private sector when the government needs supplies to increase production. I had a hard time getting this to happen in Victoria.
For Central Planning economies the government can build factories to increase ability to build weapons. Other things would be similar to above. Good idea?
For Central Planning economies the government can build factories to increase ability to build weapons. Other things would be similar to above. Good idea?
One of the points already mentioned by the game design team was "easier learning curve than HOI-2"... so we should probably restrict our speculation and advice to features that will NOT totally confuse any noobs.
Also... the idea of event-driven Factory builds for Capitalist countries effectively requires a set of events for EVERY playable country, since any country might end up as capitalist during the course of play.
Also... the idea of event-driven Factory builds for Capitalist countries effectively requires a set of events for EVERY playable country, since any country might end up as capitalist during the course of play.
I think there must be types of factories corresponding to the number of technology titles. For example electronics, rockets etc. It is what happened in real life. germany had to build a facility to build rockets. The US built a center in the desert to build the nuke and so on.
Later on in the game you can build up a factory or a facility in which you would build nukes and so on. That would be my dream economy simulation.
I guess it would be very hard to manage that in the game but that could be implemented with an AI help option.
Later on in the game you can build up a factory or a facility in which you would build nukes and so on. That would be my dream economy simulation.
I guess it would be very hard to manage that in the game but that could be implemented with an AI help option.
ulrich hart said:
Already modeled in HOI2 with rocket sites and nuclear facilities.
Acutally no, since the event system of EU3 (as I understand it) uses much more "general" event triggers and commands in the events. For example there is only one "Cultural shift" event in vanilla for all nations.
Putting 100% IC into carriers or the army is simulated.
If you only build tanks, you will lose.
If you only build carriers, you will lose.
No need to complicate things.
If you only build tanks, you will lose.
If you only build carriers, you will lose.
No need to complicate things.
Romantic said:
That's no true. Imagine for example playing for Germany you just had Bitter Peace event. Normally it would take you years to change your industry for building of carriers and other stuff needed for defeat of UK and USA. With only general IC you can start production of dozen of carriers right away.
I would like to see different type of factories, like said before land, air, naval ... and also consumer goods. because i would like to be able to switch in a given time the production of one factory to another. introducing CG as factory type, could help to simulate war production increase over year at the detriment of consumer good. At the beginning of the game, democracy will mainly have CG factory and not be able to switch to other production until given events, or slider move (hawk's one or its hoi3 equivalent) for instance.
This should also help to solve the capacity issue for a given country to be able to build 50 CV, this should be limited by the number of naval factories or shipyard.
edit : and yes, i would like to be able to send surplus of my CG production to the world market to make money with it, at least while at peace.
This should also help to solve the capacity issue for a given country to be able to build 50 CV, this should be limited by the number of naval factories or shipyard.
edit : and yes, i would like to be able to send surplus of my CG production to the world market to make money with it, at least while at peace.
If there really will be factories instead of IC, it would make us Vicky fans to get more intrested in this game. Perhaps we could even recover from the dissappointment in the decision to announce HOI 3 instead of Victoria 2. It would kind of combine best parts of both of them into one game.
My proposal would be to keep the current IC system, but with having "capacities" for aircraft, land units, naval units and such which determines what amount of IC you can spend on building certain types of units without penalties. If going over that, you get penalties.
For example, say that your aircraft building capacity is 25%. This means that if you spend up to 25% of your total IC on air planes, you get no penalties. If you would spend 50% of your ic on building air planes, building efficiency would drop.
This way, you still have complete freedom to do as you like, but you will be encourages to build according to your nation's capabilities. The capacities could be determined by sliders or somesuch.
I certainly do not want too much details, like a Victoria-like factory system. The HoI games are high-level grand strategy games with a lot of necesary abstractions. Determining how many tires should be produced does not fit in.
For example, say that your aircraft building capacity is 25%. This means that if you spend up to 25% of your total IC on air planes, you get no penalties. If you would spend 50% of your ic on building air planes, building efficiency would drop.
This way, you still have complete freedom to do as you like, but you will be encourages to build according to your nation's capabilities. The capacities could be determined by sliders or somesuch.
I certainly do not want too much details, like a Victoria-like factory system. The HoI games are high-level grand strategy games with a lot of necesary abstractions. Determining how many tires should be produced does not fit in.
Does anyone have the ability to start a poll on the subject, as apparently it is yet to be determined by PI?
While i like the idea in general, are all of you realizing how complex this would be, especially if it should be modelled semi-historic?G'Kar said:
Paradox would need some real experts to guide them, i suppose...
Romantic said:
This is a good point. Most of the items need to build war materials is generated all over the place. Germany (and the other countries) did not make a TANK factory. They converted an existing factory that already made vehicles, Krupp I believe converted a number of their factories for the war industry.
What I would like to see is a war footing percentage. Germany never reached a full war footing in WWII. Hitler was convinced that the loss of the first WWI could be attributed to the racial enemy (SOOOOO NOT TRUE) and the strain on the population that the rationing and blockades created (there is a lot of truth to this thought process). As such he took steps to ensure that the population suffered as little as possible. This included invading Norway to eliminate the blockade and super rationing conquered peoples.
As such I would love for HOI III to be the first strategy game to take the home front into account by allowing the strict rationing of materials and neccessities. This could be done with a slider or percentile buttons. You would set it to 0%, 5%, 10% etc. The percentage that you select would cause a rise in dissent and a rise in ICs. It would be even better if you could set the war footing per providence. This would allow you to strip an area of resources while you had control of it. It would raise the dissent in the province, but a WF of 100% could create a ton of ICs that you would reap the reward of till you lost the province. This could be a good strategy for Germany during the summer and spring offenses in Russia if they know that they may lose the province in the winter.