IC from bombing raids need to take a lot longer.

[krieger11b]

IC/Raw Material recovery from bombing raids need to take a lot longer.

It always seemed very odd that a province can rebuild in less than 6 months the same amount of IC that would take 15 years to build if it were in the production que.

It's make's strategic bombers useless save for the fact they are way more effective at bombing than they should be.

 

[Alex_brunius]

It always seemed very odd that a province can rebuild in less than 6 months the same amount of IC that would take 15 years to build if it were in the production que.

It's make's strategic bombers useless save for the fact they are way more effective at bombing than they should be.

It would take 5 years to rebuild them (15IC = 3parallel runs) from the ground. But I doubt any bombing could reduce loads factory complex spread out over an entire province to the stone age.

I think its nice that they repair fairly quickly. Afterall you have to imagine all the thousands of workers without a place to work are put to work rebuilding when they are not working.

Would you think it to be fun if UK was still recovering from the Blitz in 1944 or if Germany suffered from a few days of bombing in 39 still 3years later?

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Balance in all things, there needs to be that nice sweet spot between repairs being too slow, and bombing being overpowered, and too fast making bombing useless.

 

[Alexander Seil]

In real life, Allies were bombing Germany non-stop from 1943 to 1945, and it still didn't shut down German industry. If you want to see an effect from strategic bombing, you must keep bombing.

 

[truth is life]

How do you build parallel runs of IC for the same province? I haven't figured that one out in a year of play...

 

[unmerged(45464)]

The Germans were producing more planes every month in 45 than they did any previous year even though they had been bombed for years. Strategic bombing wasn't the "I win button" that they thought it would be before the war. Many people thought that bombing alone could win a war during the interwar period, they were proved wrong.

 

[krieger11b]

It is true Germany's height of production was in late 44, that was because Albert Speer taking over as armaments minister in 1943 and was an absolute genius.

Anyways, that was with Germany constantly making new factories too, imagine the destroyed factories combined with the new ones? It would have been one insane war machine, hahaha I imagine a lot of Hitlers insane super weapons might have actually been produced, like that gigantic tanks (can't remember the name) that would have been 4 times as big as the Maus.

 

[unmerged(76495)]

like that gigantic tanks (can't remember the name) that would have been 4 times as big as the Maus.

Perhaps you are thinking of the Landkreuzer

It was a stupid and wasteful project. It would have had little effect on the battlefield, certainly nothing worth its massive cost. Essentially it was just a massive symbol. A fallos symbol. A childish "mine is bigger than yours" statement, that doesn't really do anything to win the war.

 

[Alexander Seil]

Well, it wouldn't be stupid if they succeeded with the time machine project and sent it back in time to aid the German Empire in World War II. You know, in a time when it would not be bombed to pieces within 5 minutes of leaving the factory where it was built.

 

[krieger11b]

Perhaps you are thinking of the Landkreuzer

It was a stupid and wasteful project. It would have had little effect on the battlefield, certainly nothing worth its massive cost. Essentially it was just a massive symbol. A fallos symbol. A childish "mine is bigger than yours" statement, that doesn't really do anything to win the war.

Yeah that one. Hitler was just insane, the man could not think in terms of defense, he thought was always on the offense even when losing ground like crazy. It wasn't until 1944 he finally let more fighters be produced than bombers.

 

[unmerged(128483)]

It always seemed very odd that a province can rebuild in less than 6 months the same amount of IC that would take 15 years to build if it were in the production que.

It's make's strategic bombers useless save for the fact they are way more effective at bombing than they should be.

its because ur not actually laying waste to the spot where the factory is but rather knocking it out of action. a roofless factory is not useable but certainly is destroyed. thats why nuking actually removes factories since they are layed waste to.

 

[unmerged(76495)]

Well, it wouldn't be stupid if they succeeded with the time machine project and sent it back in time to aid the German Empire in World War II. You know, in a time when it would not be bombed to pieces within 5 minutes of leaving the factory where it was built.

If I was the allies, then I'm actually not sure I would destroy it. Looking at it, I fail to see how it could actually harm me. Its too big to be transported by rail, so it has to be driven to the front line. It cannot go by road, since that would destroy the roads, smaller bridges would collapse under its weight and only rivers with just a few meters of water could be crossed by it. So it will have to go cross-country, use big bridges ( and destroy the roads leading to said bridges ). It will cost massive amounts of supplies and consume massive maintanence resourses. And you know, finding spare parts to it would be pretty difficult and I reckon it would spend many weeks stranded somewhere waiting for a single part from the factory so it could go again. It would be such a big symbol that Hitler would never risk it in an attack where it would be lost,. Loads of troops would be diverted to the sole job of protecting it.

If the above turn out wrong and it may actually be useful, then it won't take much to completely take it out. Its not likely its easy to hide a landkreuzer....

Yeah that one. Hitler was just insane

I believe most leaders of WW2 were more or less insane. You have to be more specific

Hitler was really focused on big guns. Big, powerful and looooong guns. I wonder what Freud would think of that

 

[Alexander Seil]

You're not quite right, they do have excavation equipment of comparable weight and size nowadays, and they can move them. It probably just take forever to prepare the route, so it would take it months before it's anywhere near the frontline.

In any case, two He-111's would be much more cost effective. Not to menton effective, period.

 

[krieger11b]

I believe most leaders of WW2 were more or less insane. You have to be more specific

Hitler was really focused on big guns. Big, powerful and looooong guns. I wonder what Freud would think of that

I think he would be more focused on the fact that his 3 sisters would killed in concentration camps.

Anyways, even if a factory isn't completely destroyed, it would be almost as bad. The time time would take to repair the building, replace pneumatic lines, replace tools, etc, you could have replaced the factory and had a better one in it's place. The hardest thing to replace and would take by far the longest are the tools, dies and big machines.

 

[krieger11b]

I just thought about the recovery of raw materials too. If you bomb out a coal mine, you not only hae a lot of digging to do, but it could be set on fire and we have coal mines in the US that have been on fire for decades, though I don't understand why you can't just put something over the entrance to the mine and put it out that way?

It took years to put out the oil fires from the first Gulf War, imagine a bunch of incederary bombs on an oil field.

 

[Doink9731]

I just thought about the recovery of raw materials too. If you bomb out a coal mine, you not only hae a lot of digging to do, but it could be set on fire and we have coal mines in the US that have been on fire for decades, though I don't understand why you can't just put something over the entrance to the mine and put it out that way?

It took years to put out the oil fires from the first Gulf War, imagine a bunch of incederary bombs on an oil field.

You can't set a below ground coal mine on fire by bombing. Its miles underground. If it was an open pit coal mine whose poor quality coal is generally used for local power generation rather than industry it would be relatively pointless as those are easier to put out.

The difficulty with combating below ground coal fires is the lack of breathable air for the firefighters, coal dust and methane explosions, the smoldering nature of coal, and the number of tunnels for air get to the coal.

Those American coal fires were set by throwing trash into the mines and then through spontaneously combustion setting the fires.

Also, those oil field fires were set through deliberate acts of sabotage, not bombing. Bombing an oil field wouldn't do much besides damage the drilling equipment.

 

[unmerged(45464)]

I've heard of cases where a factory was bombed to pieces and up and running again in mere days. Not to mention that runway cratering was almost useless since the British would have the craters filled and the airfield up and running sometimes in a matter of hours during the Battle of Britain.

There are cases of factories, ports etc that were never repaired so maybe there should be a chance of loosing your factory or whatever permanently?

 

[Orthank]

In real life, Allies were bombing Germany non-stop from 1943 to 1945, and it still didn't shut down German industry.

Indeed, Germany had part of production spread in a small production points, part in large underground industry complex. Both were not present in HoI.

 

[Impi]

Indeed, Germany had part of production spread in a small production points, part in large underground industry complex. Both were not present in HoI.

zwerg festung anyone??

the major problem with the current system is that you can't target lynchpin industries. there is no way of destroying engine factories, or ball bearing plants, or any other vital secondary suppliers whose parts are crucial for the production of tanks etc. as far as i understood it, certain industries were targetted in some raids for the precise reason that they were one of only a few suppliers of various vital components and parts for planes, tanks etc. and that putting them out of action would have an effect on the whole industry supply chain.

the only way you would be able to model that is to introduce an economic model of Vicky-type complexity. whilst that would be fun to those of us who would like to wage true economic warfare and exercise true strategy in the resources we target for conquest and/or denial to the enemy, it's not going to happen in HOI3. hopefully HOI4 would, though.

 

[Aethis]

I find it much more cost effective to use Tac bombers to Strategic bomb, currently I have the UK at 0 IC after lots of bombing whilst Com China is bombing their Infrastructure so they don't repair the factories fast at all.