Iberians and Celto-Iberian Irish

[unmerged(63880)]

I think that non-Greeko-Roman Europeans must have each their respective ethreads.
There's a division among British Celts some are q and other are p Celtic-speaking
It is due the fact that some British Celts came from Celto-Iberians and other
from Gaul and Belgae

 

[unmerged(514)]

I think that non-Greeko-Roman Europeans must have each their respective e threads.
There's a division among British Celts some are q and other are p Celtic-speaking
It is due the fact that some British Celts came from Celto-Iberians and other
from Gaul and Belgae

Lusitanians!!! I'll be playing them!

 

[Gwalcmai]

Lusitanians!!! I'll be playing them!

Bah, tyrannical warlords and petty thieves.

 

[alvaro]

about iberians, I remember when I saw those Bull-fighter unit in RTW. Then I fully understood what creative meant in Creative Assembly

anyway, do we know if will there be unique units for different cultures?

 

[hildoceras]

anyway, do we know if will there be unique units for different cultures?

like balearic slingers (to keep the subject in Iberia) or even war chariots in Britannia or in Middle East ?
It would be great. I'd love more of such details in the resolution of battles (a bit like what exists in AGEOD's American Civil Wars with the different infantry, cavalry, artillery and so on units)

 

[Vacceo]

I think that non-Greeko-Roman Europeans must have each their respective e threads.
There's a division among British Celts some are q and other are p Celtic-speaking
It is due the fact that some British Celts came from Celto-Iberians and other
from Gaul and Belgae

You´re refering to a myth linking Galicia with Ireland-Britain. That is Breogan, King of the Eire...

But taking a look at archeology (and I can personaly tell you about it; I worked as archeologist in a celtiberian settlement during 4 years); material culture of celtiberian worlds is quite different from british ones.
If we go for written accounts, seems like society was related but not equal considerin there wasn´t druids in Iberia and they were in British Isles.

 

[Luis de Aveiro]

You´re refering to a myth linking Galicia with Ireland-Britain. That is Breogan, King of the Eire...

But taking a look at archeology (and I can personally tell you about it; I worked as archeologist in a celtiberian settlement during 4 years); material culture of celtiberian worlds is quite different from british ones.
If we go for written accounts, seems like society was related but not equal considering there wasn´t druids in Iberia and they were in British Isles.

From what I've read recently (sorrowfully can't remember the link or publication) british mitochondrial dna analysis shows that the british have iberian ascendancy

 

[Jolt]

Noone really knows the "True" Iberian descendancy. As far as I read, the most plausible one, was that Berber populations emmigratted from the Magreb into the Peninsula. Of course, then came the Celts from the north.
But I suppose, that is irrelevant, anyways. What I do wonder is, how will EU shape tribes into a political entity. Iberians were in fact, thouroughly known for internal desputes. Seems hard to me to create the "Lusitanians" which would be (An alliance? In peace-time?) a factions formed up of several tribes ranging from the Western Andaluzia up to Northern Portugal.

 

[Luis de Aveiro]

Noone really knows the "True" Iberian descendancy. As far as I read, the most plausible one, was that Berber populations emmigratted from the Magreb into the Peninsula. Of course, then came the Celts from the north.
But I suppose, that is irrelevant, anyways. What I do wonder is, how will EU shape tribes into a political entity. Iberians were in fact, thouroughly known for internal desputes. Seems hard to me to create the "Lusitanians" which would be (An alliance? In peace-time?) a factions formed up of several tribes ranging from the Western Andaluzia up to Northern Portugal.

Take a look at this map

 

[Jolt]

Oops, I remember having seen that map. I hadn't seen it in years. Very correct, my gross mistake about Lusitanian positions. Very nice. That makes up possible to shape into a small faction. But....bleh, it's still unhistorical.

 

[Luis de Aveiro]

Oops, I remember having seen that map. I hadn't seen it in years. Very correct, my gross mistake about Lusitanian positions. Very nice. That makes up possible to shape into a small faction. But....bleh, it's still unhistorical.

Alas, we might be able to create mod map of Iberia with all the tribes and clans

We have lists of Castro culture positions, and you might be amazed by quality of information about that era in here

 

[Jolt]

That would actually be nice.

 

[Vacceo]

Noone really knows the "True" Iberian descendancy. As far as I read, the most plausible one, was that Berber populations emmigratted from the Magreb into the Peninsula. Of course, then came the Celts from the north.
But I suppose, that is irrelevant, anyways. What I do wonder is, how will EU shape tribes into a political entity. Iberians were in fact, thouroughly known for internal desputes. Seems hard to me to create the "Lusitanians" which would be (An alliance? In peace-time?) a factions formed up of several tribes ranging from the Western Andaluzia up to Northern Portugal.

I think the closest thing a Paradox game has made to the "iberian tribal chaos" is the italian republics in EU.
I mean, let´s say we have an Iberian culture; that iberian culture would gather lacetans, indikets, bastetans...
A celtiberian branch could include arevacians, vettonians, vecceans, oretans, carpetans...

I think that is the closest thing implementable in a game like this, because if you want genuine reality, I don´t think it will be possible to create a genuine oppida political map in which the vacceans (the example I know best) could be divided into little political groups corresponding to their oppidum: that would make possible that the vacceans from Pallantia have different alliances an policies than the vacceans of Intercatia or the vacceans from Rauda, Cauca, Salmantica...

Regarding the origins, according to this last decade excavations, seems like iberian and celtiberian populi combined a 75% of native developement and a 25% influence from non-iberian cultures.

If you look at arevacian world (the famous guys who resisted in Numantia), only a 25% of his material culture is La Tène related while the rest comes from I Iron Age cultures like Soto de Medinilla and even from the last Bornze Age period (in this case, Cogotas culture)

 

[unmerged(63880)]

like balearic slingers (to keep the subject in Iberia) or even war chariots in Britannia or in Middle East ?

Fortunately for Paradox chariot ers has gone at that time
Last chariots were used by Porus - Western Indian king and even Indians reverted to other units-types soon

 

[hildoceras]

Fortunately for Paradox chariot ers has gone at that time
Last chariots were used by Porus - Western Indian king and even Indians reverted to other units-types soon

looking for references I found a roman battle against Pyrrhic forces (Asculum -279) where the romans opposed the Pyrrhic war elephants with ox-led chariots with long spikes ( :rofl: ) but it is not what I remembered.

A battle during Carthaginian time... here it is Magnesia -189 ! Romans against Seleucid Empire. I remembered it from the game "Great Battles of Hannibal". I never understood how to oppose them

 

[unmerged(80749)]

Fortunately for Paradox chariot ers has gone at that time
Last chariots were used by Porus - Western Indian king and even Indians reverted to other units-types soon

The Brits used chariots against the Romans.

 

[Vacceo]

The Brits used chariots against the Romans.

Considering how efective they were against Legio IX Hispana, they weren´t a really effective weapon.

 

[unmerged(58901)]

You´re refering to a myth linking Galicia with Ireland-Britain. That is Breogan, King of the Eire...

But taking a look at archeology (and I can personaly tell you about it; I worked as archeologist in a celtiberian settlement during 4 years); material culture of celtiberian worlds is quite different from british ones.
If we go for written accounts, seems like society was related but not equal considerin there wasn´t druids in Iberia and they were in British Isles.

Actually I believe there is a book out called "Vikings, Saxons, and Celts" where geneticist proves this myth true.

 

[Vacceo]

Being geneticaly related means... well; nothing.

Just take a look at the material culture, patrons of settlement, funeral rites and all that short of things archeology uses to do and you´ll find that they´re are not that similar at all.

 

[redmark]

Being geneticaly related means... well; nothing.

Just take a look at the material culture, patrons of settlement, funeral rites and all that short of things archeology uses to do and you´ll find that they´re are not that similar at all.

One of the limitations of archaeology - every cultural shift is identified as a new distinct culture (arising almost from nowhere), usually "backed up" with theories of mass migration and wipeout.

Genetic analysis shows that approximately 75% of modern residents of the British Isles are descended from populations resident in the British Isles 8,000-12,000 years ago - the vast majority arriving from the Iberian Ice Age refuge (a much small number, rising slightly in eastern areas, came via the east from the Balkans refuge). Even in England, the figure is two-thirds; the population was neither "wiped out" or "pushed west" by the Romans, or the Anglo-Saxons. See "Origins of the British" by Oppenheimer.

More speculatively (using archaeology, linguistics and genetics), the book suggests that the English language was not brought by Anglo-Saxons, but was a much earlier Germanic branch, with some Norse influence. Also that the 'Saxons' - closely related to Belgic/Frisian tribes - were present in south eastern England before the Romans.