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Ahaz Flagg

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Ok, I feel I have mastered the art of Ireland, my last game I could have been Emperor, I had the 5 largest army in the World, granted was a giant differance between me and # 4!! But it felt good!! This even after 50 years of killing family members because the plauge ruined my inhertiance line! What a mess that was lol.

So, my new challange will be to form Hispania, and I am not having any luck at all. Let me tell you what my 1st few moves are, and the results I have been getting.

Start as Leon, plot to kill the King Castille, this goes fast normally withing 5 months. Then I plot to kill the King of Galacia, this takes a while and a bribe to Spymaster and few others, within 2 years I have all 3 kingdoms. All great and happy in North Iberia right? Well not so much, 9 times out of 10, the countess of Zamora kills me before my plot to kill her is done. The one time I did kill her, I was able to stabilze the 3 kingdoms. However, even with an alliance with France the muslims wear me down pretty fast, cannot get enough troops to hold them from 100% score.

So my thinking now is to gather all 3 kingdom, then take Navarra, Aragon and Barcelona then go after muslims. Not sure if this will work, but going after muslims that early equals death for me. Any suggestions on assain orders? I try to go fast so they have no kids.
 

Kaiser Ludwig

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Kaiser's Sister. That is all.

Essentially, you're pretty screwed until 1110 when the Hospitallers and Templars arrive. You have the Abbasids, Dhununids, and those guys who are essentially a Wide Portugal. And the Almoravids in Morocco. And the Hammadids in Algiers.

Say no to wars except against a single breakaway count. Have at least a 10 to 1 troop advantage to minimize losses in whatever expansion war you do get into. KEEP THE TREASURY STOCKED!!! NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER go below 100 gold. EVER!
(Or at least until holy orders arrive.) Those 1,500 mercs + 4, 5 months of upkeep in stock will be essential in the opening phase of the war.

Alliances. France and the HRE. If things look specially grim, as you're a King you can only bend the knee to the Kaiser or Basileos. Do so. This is a bit gamey though, but it provides you with a virtually unassailable position internationally barring a Jihad which you won't have to face until 1187. Keep in mind that you'll need to keep things swift as by 1166 your lands will have drifted to the H/E RE and won't be eligible to form Hispania.

Edit: Apparently I forgot King's can't swear fealty outside their de jure zones. My bad, I'm used to starting lower, and my Hispania game was with Valencia (county of), so that was a viable strategy.
 
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grumphie

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forget murdering your brothers within the first years. requires an awfull amount of luck and neglects problems inside the realm.

i'd say: start as leon. kill castille, you want to take el cid off his hands. marry someone that brings a good allaince, like the king of france's sister. his armies shall fight your battles. once you killed the kign of castille, murder uracca. if she plots, imprison. you dont want to lose half the realm in a civilw ar with muslims on your doorstep. once urracca is taken care of, watch the muslims. once(hopefully your idiot younger brother) declares a war for i.e. beja, start your own war for i.e. todelo. muslims will jump ship to defend beja, and you can take todelo relativly easy if france joins in. if your brother is any decent once your initial problems are taken care off, plot to kill him. if he already lost protugal at this point, let him live as a meatsheild against the muslims. you can take him back later.

taking todelo and the duchy of aragon shoudl be your first priority. some cristian lands, rich, and blocks expansion of other cristian realsm into iberia. at this point, start trying to fabricate claims on the border regions with france/HRE so they will fight you instead of a small duke. often, theyll neglect claims where they have to fight a large enemy if they dont egt personal gain. ths basicly makes iberia your persoanl playground. now, you either got rid of you brother and maybe his heirs, and can continue kicking down the muslims. at this point: fear the almoravids. dont mind to take a small break of warfare to incorporate your new territories to produce troops as they can easly boast over 10k men very quickly. your army ont he other hand should grow to the point where france is no longer needed to save you fromt he scary muslims, and you should start waging wars without other wars distracting the muslims. do mind the almoravids: them joining useally ends in your defeat at this point.

if you brother got defeated, first take back his lands. they shoudl still be mainly cristian and thus be quickly incorperated. at this point, go on with the above strategy.

once the holy orders arive, things change completly. basicly, youll be untouchable by the muslims. any attack on a catholic is suicide for them. continue pushing them down towards africa, and when the almoravids are going to get the inevtable rebellions you start strikign at mauritania itself. the sooner their threath is reduced, the better. taking sicily can be a valuable asset as well, considering its rich lands and possible holdings. afirca is a good target as well, as useally the zirids, suleimid and tunesians will be fighting eachother over trpoliniata and sicily like theres no tomorrow.



EDIT: disregard the second post. you cant swear fealthy as a king exept your de jure lord(or at least it used to be, but i dont believe 1.08 chaned this), you are FAR from screwed as long as you dotn do anything foolish and the kasiers sisters are now celibate, whcih is NOT good for your dynasty at all. you want to properly educate your heir. also, 100 gold isnt going to save you. at all. you either need to maintain a huge treasury or forget about it. 1500 men wont save you if your infrastructure is bad to begin with. best bet is probaly increasing income to the point where you can afford to keep them raised, but thats often not achieved till later. instead, get a border with france and allaince with england for the defensive wars. wait till most muslims are busy and then strike. the dumb AI is a godsent at this.
 
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Ahaz Flagg

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Ok so pretty much what I was doing,but no land building. So the key is to control the north ASAP, then use holy wars for the south. Good info on the empire, and that makes stopping those idiot AI's on the stupid early Holy wars important. They need to judge better on when to attack!! I learned early on to not spend gold in Iberia, save for troops or killing a bothersome family member. 100 years is going to take some focus!!

Thanks a lot!!
 

Alyiakal

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I'll chip in from my experiences, mostly playing as Navarra (the flexibility of being able to land female dynasts and claimants is invaluable). Since Antso is more distantly related to the other Jimenas, this kind of start plays somewhat differently, as you have no claims on them, and they have no claims on you. (I imagine Aragon would be in a similar boat, also only being a cousin).

The first thing you should remember is that your fellow Christian Iberians are merely fodder to buy you time as you chew up the Muslims to the south. They will continuously do incredibly stupid things like fighting each other if not otherwise occupied. The first thing you need to do before even unpausing the game is to secure another, more reliable, ally. In the case of Navarra and Aragon, they start with a boatload of siblings, so you can actually secure more alliances with them. The three bigger Spanish kingdoms only have the king unmarried, so choose wisely.

I find that France and the HRE make good defensive allies, but are relatively poor at helping you take more land. The reason being as that those huge European powers need to muster all their troops, then either march them towards your lands, or march them to their coasts, get on a boat, and then get to your lands. By this time, the AI will have dogpiled you already if they were going to do anything (in the case of an offensive holy war). On the defence, it's not so bad because of the AI's reluctance to assault your holdings, instead preferring to wait for a siege, allowing the European doomstacks to arrive.

However, you surely need to take land from the Muslims if you hope to beat them back. For that, you need an offensive ally, and at the beginning of the game, I find that the best one is Denmark. Svend starts the game with literally a million kids, two of them being unmarried daughters. The best thing about Denmark is that all their counties are coastal, so he just raises his troops and immediately loads them on boats and comes to you. Also, I find that when his troops actually arrive, they will attach themselves to your primary stack, so they will essentially do your bidding. France and the HRE like to shuffle their stacks around independently, which doesn't accomplish much in the grand scheme of things. Winning holy wars (and indeed any war) is about ramping the warscore up to 100% to force peace on your terms, and the faster you can do this, the less time there is for Mauretania or someone else scary to intervene.

Another interesting choice in Matilda of Tuscany (and I only say interesting because I play Navarra and have siblings to spare). Since factions were introduced, I've noticed that Tuscany, and indeed most of the HRE that is NOT de jure territory, usually tables a successful ultimatum to the emperor. Sometime later they are reconquested, unless of course you can keep them busy fighting your wars instead of each other.

Once your alliances are set up, immediately declare a holy war for your nearest duchy and call all your allies. You basically want to storm the duchy and take it as fast as you can. This does several things. First, it obviously weakens the targetted Muslim emirate; you are essentially slashing their troop count in half for the next engagement, which will almost certainly be when you declare another holy war on one of their neighbours. It also immediately gets all your allies into the fight, fighting for your interests, ensuring they aren't expanding themselves, and making them easier to deal with when you decide it would be more convenient that their lands belong to you. Lastly, it will cause a truce. I know the truce appears to only apply to you, but I've never seen an AI attack me while a truce has been in effect after they lost land. It doesn't really matter that much, because they'll probably join the next holy war you declare on a neighbour, but at least you don't have to worry about them declaring a holy war on you.

The important thing to remember is to keep the pressure up against the Muslims while you can. If your allies are off fighting their own wars, don't declare a holy war right then, because they won't show up. Wait until they are at peace and then call them in. If you keep an eye on what your allies are doing and call them when they aren't busy, you can fairly easily roll over all of Muslim Iberia, even before holy orders.

That being said, do fear Mauretania. They can pull a lot of troops out of the three duchies closest to Gibraltar, and then cross over and ruin your day, which is why you need to make sure you can win a holy war quickly before you declare it. Don't bother crossing the strait until you have holy orders in hand, as you'll need the extra troops to smash their garrisons.

Once you control Mauretania, you can basically turn to cleaning up the other Christian Iberian kingdoms (or what's left of them), usually interspersed with holy warring your way to Tunis/Sicily. At this point, you no longer need to rely on allies and can attack wherever you can get claims. Usually for me this means continuing along the African coast until I say hi to the Fatimids (or whoever is running Egypt by now) by taking out coastal Egypt. You may also want to venture into Mali and take control before garrisons get too big, as it's a pain to haul troops through the desert by foot.
 

Ahaz Flagg

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Ah yes, good advise sir!! Another question, I like to take 6-7 counties as my own, always together, 2 duchies if possible, where do you setup base? I like Galacia as home base with 4 coastal counties. I have noticed France always helps me on holy wars, will try Denmark. They do seem to be juggernaughts!! So, in this takover, do you take out Aragon pretty fast?
 

Alyiakal

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Just be aware that Denmark will holy war against the Pagans in the north from time to time, so check to make sure they aren't busy (again same with all your allies).

The Muslim counties have a higher tech rating than the Christian counties do, but it takes a while to assimilate them. When all is said and done, I like to hold the duchies of Valencia and Granada, seeing as all 3 provinces in each duchy are coastal. Valencia is questionable, because it's a bit light on available holding slots, but Granada is solid. The county of Granada itself usually becomes my capital after I clean out southern Spain. Tangier is also a pretty good duchy once you manage to defeat Mauretania.

You can take your time taking out Aragon, seeing as they are only one county. Send your Chancellor there to fabricate a claim, but don't stress out too much about it; the claim costs you cash that could be spent hiring mercs to knock down the Muslims. Again, since I play as Navarra, I have to do this with all the other kingdoms in Iberia, since I don't have claims otherwise. It is cleaner to not have to deal with multiple kingdom level titles, but it will take longer to acquire the land (not that you should have any shortage of land to acquire with holy wars).

Barcelona can usually be left to their own devices; the duchy is not allied at the start, so you don't have to help them when the Hammadids inevitably crash into them. It's pretty much up to France at that point whether they survive or not. Actually, you probably don't want to help ANY of the other Spanish kingdoms when they get attacked; it's much easier to holy war for that land later if they manage to lose it. My results have been mixed, but if you're attacking decisively enough, the Muslims usually can't mount a counteroffensive (at least until you hit Seville and Mauretania gets involved). I actually had one game where I carved my way down the eastern Iberian coast, all the way to my objective of Granada, and in the down years while I was consolidating the land, Leon and Castille took a chunk out of the Aftasids and Dhunnunids respectively. That game was easier with respect to crushing the Muslims in holy wars, but it was a huge pain to later on conquer expanded Christian kingdoms, simply because you need more fabricated claims or claimants.

One other thing about allies, be wary of distance, as people who are too far away won't come at all. Denmark works because they seem to be in a sweet spot whereas the rest of the Scandinavian countries will frequently complain about being too far away.

Regarding your previous comments, don't spend too much money upgrading holdings that you're going to give away later, but don't totally neglect them either, as they will probably be part of your demense for a while until you clean out southern Iberia and make it productive again.
 

Tokie

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I did much better starting as Duke of Barcelona. Start off by banishing everyone and get your demesne to max, then wait for opportunity to strike holy wars on your neighbors(They will be either fighting each other or the other christian kings). Save enough for mercs and blitz their land while their levies are away.

Marriage alliance or swearing fealty to France or HRE may also be useful.
 

JonStryker

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Ah yes, good advise sir!! Another question, I like to take 6-7 counties as my own, always together, 2 duchies if possible, where do you setup base? I like Galacia as home base with 4 coastal counties. I have noticed France always helps me on holy wars, will try Denmark. They do seem to be juggernaughts!! So, in this takover, do you take out Aragon pretty fast?

The best Spanish provinces for the demesne are coastal (former) Muslim provinces in the south. Granada, Sevilla, ... maybe even (lateron) some provinces on the other side of the strait of Gibraltar.
Destroy the duchies and keep the best counties in those duchies for the rest of the game ;)
 

unmerged(527492)

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To me, it's all about timing. Unite the three Kingdoms, yes. Protect Navarra and Barcelona in defense, yes.

Offensively, only help Barcelona and Navarra if they have lucked into declaring a quickly winnable war.

Otherwise, your goal is to sit and wait for the Muslims to get into other wars. When they're fighting each other or defending against someone else's holy war, you MUST strike. It's all about finding the moments when they're vulnerable and capitalizing, and this is true from the very start of the game. Toledo is a great piece of land to take at the start for religious reasons. With a few smart conquests, you should be able to build up momentum and push most of the Muslims out of Spain by 1100.

Mauretania is definitely the biggest threat, though I generally find that they are more likely to be a pita by joining against your expansionary wars.
 

Ahaz Flagg

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1100!! My 4 tries have resulted in me being overrun by about that time, the muslims declare holy war, France is busy = dead me!! It is a fun area, much differant than Ireland for sure.
 

Kurospidey

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Usually people forget the easiest- and much quicker than fabricating individual claims- way to gain big kingdoms is through marriages. In reality that's how Castille and Aragon got together to form eventually Spain.

Spain is a difficult but interesting scenario. One interesting way to do it is cultivate good diplomatic relations with a kingdom, marry your heir with the oldest daughter, and assassinate your way to the throne. All are agnatic-cognatic, so it should be no problem. This I did in one of my games successfully.

Also, one easy way to unify Spain with even less war is putting your succession law to seniority. Remember the Jimenas are all related, so if you keep and keep sending your kingdom/s to the oldest member in the dynasty you'll eventually have all christian Spain unified (except Barcelona). This I recognize is a bit gamey and never tried out, but it can be done.

The different aproaches all add flavour to the gameplay, but the thing that never changes is you've gotta save a ton of money for future mercs and ally with a big military power that can help you. In previous patches I always married the bastard sister of the kaiser, Adela Salian, but now the developers have made her celibate. Never played in recent patches, but look for someone free, or even kill the husband to get the marriage becuase no alliance equals death.
 
Last edited:

MasterOfGrey

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One thing that is good to do in Iberia, is destroy kingdom titles other than your primary. It'll stop you taking opinion penalties from vassals in the area long-term and it'll result in a more stable empire later on once they've integrated de jure.

Edit: Also if you've united the kingdoms there really should be no way you're getting over run, France's assistance should be unnecessary. This could be related to the retinue you're using, or not using. If you don't have LoR and hence don't have retinues, that would be half your problem. If you do, ignore the Iberian cultural retinue, those caballeros aren't all that good. Use Skirmish retinues, and later Shock retinues to pump up their melee phase.
 

Ahaz Flagg

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Yes indeed no alliances are bad until you can field a 20k + army I have found. Hmm, good idea on sucession law, never thought of doing that, so damn easy it might make me feel guilty!!
 

Alyiakal

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France was actually an even worse ally pre-1.07, because instead of factions that fire only occasionally to cause civil war, there was always some Duke in revolt, and since the French Dukes hold a lot of land, this meant that it was a toss up whether France was actually doing anything except fighting itself most of the game.

Again, in my experience, the best allies you can get are ones with a lot of coastal counties that can quickly raise their levies and come to your aid. That's why Denmark is so valuable and responsive as an ally. Any Christian realms in Italy that are independent are also usually good bets.

I will also sadly agree that the Iberian Caballero Cavalry retinue is particularly worthless, mostly because Light Cavalry are just awful (see recent thread about them). Their stats for anything except killing routing enemies are worthless (when you do manage to rout an enemy army though, it's glorious, as basically ALL the routers die). It's sad because nothing else gets a cultural bonus; the rest of the retinues are just stock troops.