I would like to see a scandinavian focus tree in the next dlc.

[alexman]

playing as a minor is tough and the first thing anyone ever does is consolidate power. id like a unified tree that branches down into a united scandinavia with diffferent paths and choices. with the collective manpower and wealth it opens up major prospects no single nation could endevor.

choosing the democratic option is creating a united alliance when world tension reaches 50% after germany takes over poland and france.
it puts everyone else as a puppet under the player wether u start as denmark, norway,sweden finland. as a defensive coalition. as the war progress you get an emergency meeting of reforming the kalmar union under one leader. it will force you on a 2 front war with both axis and sovjet defending denmark and finland.
like the yugoslavian plane liscensing there should be internal tradedeals of uniting swedens iron, norways oil finlands nickel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_deposits_of_Finland a major reason of nazis support was for ammo production via finland.
also ensuring greater economic power as sweden export saab tanks and planes to their allies.
swedens tank program was the greatest of all powers but they were shit they were completely focused on light tanks and 2 man crews it was the same american inf support doctorine.

facist is rather self explanatory at some point in history each king has had a personal union of another and considers everything their rightful claim.

as communist you invite advisors and start coups and civil war backing insurgents after winning wars they become puppets of yours as scandinavia forms you are a consolidated as a satelite of sovjet where u can choose to integrate with them or fight for independence.

the north never had large armies but were focused on defensive wars and specialist. norway have telemark kompaniet. sweden has fallskärmsjägare and finland were renown for their ski snipers. a focus on small special forces with mountain and winter attrition.
sweden should start with forced consription of 10% as värnplikten has existed forever.

sweden was a manifacturing superpower with saab and bofors. they should have lots of economical expansion and tradedeals with both sides. swedens neutrality was wellknown for dealing to both sides germany and uk with iron. and anti air.

norway became an oil superpower with their offshore prospects and statoil

the empire of sweden had claims of st petersburg and the baltic states.

there should be a non aligned route where you consolidate power as a monarch going back to absolutist. treading a needle path of appeasing the allies from invasion with trade export as uk had plans for preinvasion of norway and sweden as a staging for attacking germany.

Plan R 4 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

lots of this is alt history. historically nothing ever happened sweden was neutral finland just had minor border friction norway and denmark got whooped.
but alt history if sweden became a superpower they would be an underdog i would assume germany and soviet would make a pact similar to poland and piece it up as west going to germany and finland being annexed. it would be fun to have the greatest CB of cores vs a two front war against majors. or playing lots of even decisions and subterfuge of spying and tradedeals to avoid invasion by leaning to axies or allies everyone wants a piece of the norths natural resources for the war.

 

[Emperor_Napoleon]

I agree that there's potential for some good content, but I don't think it should be the next DLC. There are still too many countries that took part in the war in a more significant way that either don't have unique focus trees at all or have very lackluster ones that need to be updated. Prioritising giving unique trees to: a country that didn't even fight in the war, a country that surrendered in six hours, and a country that surrendered after two months seems a bit wasteful when that time and effort could go to other more relevant countries. I also think that in terms of interesting internal politics and alt-history potential, the Middle Eastern countries like Iraq and Iran have far more potential for exciting content and should be prioritised over the Scandinavian countries. The exception is Finland, which I absolutely believe should get a unique focus tree very soon, hopefully alongside the USSR's rework. Finland wasn't just involved in "minor border friction", they used their full military might against the Soviet Union twice, the second time actually penetrating into Soviet territory in the much less well known Continuation War (probably less well known on purpose, since they allied with Nazi Germany). Finland is definitely the third most important country that needs focus tree content, after the USSR and Italy respectively. I wouldn't be bothered if no other Scandinavian country got a unique focus tree though. I'd prefer reworks of many countries that already have weak focus trees instead (especially all the Together for Victory ones).

 

[Iskulya]

I find your suggestions to be kind of unimaginative, but Scandinavia definitely should receive some attention soon.

As the next DLC? No. Pretty sure there would be riots around here if both Italy and the Soviet Union do not arrive in 1.11. Such an expansion wouldn't have room for Scandinavia as a whole, although it should have room for Finland. We absolutely need Finland along with the Soviet rework IMO.

But, with that said, I think the remaining Scandinavian countries(Denmark, Sweden, and Norway) would be great for a "Country Pack" style DLC like the one we are getting next week.

This content would be a great boon to the game.



Illustrating from an MP game I'm in that's been ongoing for about a month now:

We play historical, and have a number of house rules, but suffice to say that manual justifications of war are not allowed by us outside special circumstances. Germany chose not to invade Norway.

Generally, it's a good idea for Germany to invade Norway, at least in multiplayer. Why? Because this makes the route of allied Lend-lease to the Soviet Union much more treacherous, as the Germans can have their subs operating under the blanket of air cover. It does have drawbacks, though. They need to commit a decently large garrison to ward off potential allied invasion.

Here was this issue. If German does not invade Norway, then there is nothing Britain can do to take advantage of it, which is very ahistorical. In real life, Churchill assigned tremendous importance to bringing Norway into the war, to such an extent that in an internal memo he stated that even if Norway and Sweden were driven to join the Axis that this would be a worthwhile price to pay for the possibility of occupying Norway.

It's a good idea for Britain to secure Norway because it serves an opposite function versus the Germans taking it: it gives them bases and airfields to protect lend lease convoys to the Soviet Union, and potentially is a springboard for invasion of Germany and provides airfields for a bombing campaign.

There is a focus in vanilla for Britain to invade, but in a normal game it is impossible to take because it requires fascist or communist support in Norway to be at a level it will never reach in the game, even with historical focuses turned off.



So, here's more or less what I'd like to see as a part of a historical focus tree.

Some kind of event chain and/or decision system in which if the British bungle things, Norway AND possibly Sweden are both driven into the Axis. I think this should be a (remote) possibility even with historical focuses on. Again, there is a lot of historical precedent for it and the British considered it a serious possibility. There should be a range of potential outcomes which vary from Norway joining the Allies, to Norway successfully maintaining its neutrality, to Norway and possibly Sweden joining the Axis.

Norway should have focuses to bolster the airbases, naval bases, and coastal forts to punish whichever side of the war fails to ally or occupy Norway. The new content should encourage Germany to invade Norway; Norway should, of course, receive a bunch of new penalties. Their level of military unpreparedness was remarkable. I think they only had something like 13,000 boots on the ground when Germany invaded. But, Germany should no longer get a free lunch, either. If Germany chooses not to invade Norway, then Britain should be able to exploit that to their own advantage.

Many of the new focus trees are really good, I'm really liking what I'm seeing from some of our great developers like @ManoDeZombi and @Buzz! One issue some country content has had in the past that they are too self-contained, that there is no real hook for players playing as the majors to have much to do with them. As one example of the contrary, the great Portuguese focus tree can have relevance in a historical game as Britain if you choose to use the decision to invite them to the Allies. Similarly, it seems that in Battle for the Bosporus there will be a new event about the demilitarization of the Turkish straits which can give Soviet players an opportunity for an early war with Turkey. I think we need to see things like this with hypothetical Norwegian and Swedish content. New content that more than just making those countries fun to play as, gives new opportunities and options while you are playing as the major powers, too.

For alternate history content there seems to be a lot of possibilities. The Union between Norway and Sweden ended only a few decades before the game's start date. Evidently, tensions arising from the dissolution of the union in 1905 edged Sweden towards sympathy with the Central Powers in the First World War, while the same pushed Norway towards sympathizing with the Entente.

Most people instantly think of a Kalmar style union or a pan-scandinavian union when they imagine new content for the Scandinavian countries, and I think that should indeed be an option, but it should not be easy. From the perspective of playing as Norway or Sweden, I think entangling oneself with the Danes should carry the serious risk of running afoul of the Germans, while entangling oneself with the Finns should risk incurring the wrath of the Soviets. Trying to unify all of Scandinavia should invoke the fury of both great powers simultaneously...

This is also what makes an option for a more limited restoration of union between Norway and Sweden seem like it could be a good choice, especially as a stepping stone to a longer, campaign-long objective of achieving total unification of Scandinavia. I do not know much about the history of these Scandinavian countries, but upon starting to read the excellent Hitler's Preemptive War: The Battle for Norway, 1940 by Henrik Lunde, I am hooked onto reading more. I do not know how much fertile ground there is for things like the much beloved non-aligned/monarchist alternate history paths.

As for communist stuff, it's little known but during the political battling between Stalin and Bukharin's Right Opposition, the Right Opposition founded an almost Trotskyist style international opposition called the International Communist Opposition. In the Scandinavian communist parties it became extremely influential, to the point that in the Norwegian CP I believe the party leadership went over to the Bukharin's ICO. Definitely provides an interesting basis for a non-Trotskyist anti-Stalin communist path.

I think everyone is curious to see what a Quisling path could offer as well, or if such content could be even implemented in a historical game, perhaps giving Germany the option of setting up a more authoritative Quisling regime instead of a very weak puppet with only the thinnest veneer of independence.

 

[safe-keeper]

I've already written down my ideas for gameplay additions for a Scandi DLC here.
In short, we probably need a proper port invasion system since the Germans did this for Weserubung, and an actual surprise attack system that lets you try to sneakily attack another country without declaring war instantly, and possibly even cow it into surrendering early if you make significant gains early on. A system where you try to mobilise and prepare your country for war, but have to fight against pacifist voices in your government, and also risk early invasion from Germany or the UK and France if you align too strongly with a faction, wouldn't go amiss either. Something akin to the alignment pyramid in HoI3, or a "Readiness scale" that determined how well your army was prepared when someone declared war on you. Finally, it'd be a good addition to be able to evacuate your heads of state from your capital and relocate them to a different state or even country, albeit at a stiff cost of stability/war support and probably also various stat penalties that hurt your ability to command your army and wage war.

 

[TalyonUngol]

I think a good empire of Sweden path of a focus tree sounds fun. Imo that has the most potential in terms of flavor and fun.

 

[alexman]

i do agree italy, poland, checkoslovakia should get refreshed trees. but its only minor modifications needed. we shouldnt have to wait a year for an update to them it could be a minor patch.

we faultly assume denmark and norway surrendered in 6h/2m reality was that finland fully commited to joining axis and fought alongside germany. there were 15k soldiers that volunteered to support nazis in denmark and norway and over 50k women that slept with officers

Norway apologises to its World War Two 'German girls'

Norwegian Prime Minister Erna Solberg admits that they were victims of "undignified treatment".

www.bbc.com

there were lots of collaborators. we shouldnt see them ass capitulators but should have minor trees as vichy france that supported the expansion of nazism. the socialist worker parties were very big in all of scandinavia. the incursion of scandinavia wasnt just a minor thing for fun but secured large resources of iron to fuel the war.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Volunteer_Corps_(Winter_War) about 10k sweden joined the axis in the soviet war.

sweden was very close to fully commit to the war and annexing finland. as soviet attacked finland pleaded for support offering annexation. this was futher driven that soviet actually bombed stockholm pushing public support of a full scale war.

Bombningarna av Stockholm och Strängnäs 1944 – Wikipedia

sv.wikipedia.org

Bombningen av Pajala 1940 – Wikipedia

sv.wikipedia.org

 

[Ivankovsky]

USSR dlc MUST. BE. NEXT.

Well, if a scandanavian DLC is made by a side team, as its the case for Battle for the Bosphorus I wouldn't mind, but I'd wager they need more time.
Finland is 100% going to be in the USSR dlc, so there's part of scandanavia done.

 

[alexman]

what is wrong with the ussr tree and playstyle?

 

[Harin]

what is wrong with the ussr tree and playstyle?

There will be others who can answer that much better than I, but one of the reasons I want to see the USSR updated, is because it has the greatest chance of seeing land combat and the battle planner updated.

 

[Rashie]

what is wrong with the ussr tree and playstyle?

The USSR has multiple 210 day long focuses that does pretty much nothing worthwhile for the player. The way the purge is implemented is not using the decisions system introduced since, and should not just be a 210 day long focus with 4 events. It has virtually no political alt-history paths in it. There's one focus you can take if you don't do the purge and get Trotsky back through a civil war. It's pretty much impossible to do the reconcile Japan focus since Japan creates a faction pretty early on now instead of joining the Axis. The industrial build-up side of things could also be expanded upon greatly.

 

[safe-keeper]

Yes, Soviets must come before anyone else, definitely before Scandinavia.

 

[Feeblezak]

No more minors until the soviets and italy have reworked trees imo.

 

[desphorin]

what is wrong with the ussr tree and playstyle?

Literally about half of the tree is useless (everything under PCDI)

 

[Ketchup & friends]

Actually, Soviets, Italy and Scandinavia could be added together in the next patch.

It would be mirroring WtT (1 reworked major FT, related 4 new minor FT + 1 unrelated major FT):

• SU
• Finland
• Sweden
• Norway
• Denmark
• and Italy

The Nordics could have some shared branches.

But that would mean no rework for Poland and no other focus trees.

 

[Emperor_Napoleon]

Actually, Soviets, Italy and Scandinavia could be added together in the next patch.

It would be mirroring WtT (1 reworked major FT, related 4 new minor FT + 1 unrelated major FT):

• SU
• Finland
• Sweden
• Norway
• Denmark
• and Italy

The Nordics could have some shared branches.

But that would mean no rework for Poland and no other focus trees.

I’d much rather have Poland be reworked than any Scandi country getting a focus tree (except Finland but apparently that’s not classified as Scandinavia?)

If we’re speaking about Eastern and Northern Europe, for me the priority is: Soviet Union, then Finland, then Poland. I’d also like to see a unique shared focus tree for the Baltic states at some point.

 

[Fulmen]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Volunteer_Corps_(Winter_War) about 10k sweden joined the axis in the soviet war.

To quote myself:

It's a shame that because of the actions of the Swedish government very little of that materiel, much of it antiquated, and very few of those volunteers, ever got deployed before the war was over.

For example, about a reinforced battalion's worth of Swedes got deployed to a quiet sector of the front in Northern Finland, starting 22. or 27.2.1940. They and a handful of individuals in other units, such as Flying Regiment 19 that flew bi-planes from the late 1920s and early 1930s, comprised the entirety of Swedes who saw action in the war.

A fraction of the c. 8k Swedish volunteers ever saw the front, and Finland most certainly wasn't an Axis country even by association in the Winter War.

sweden was very close to fully commit to the war and annexing finland.

I'll quote myself again:

Sweden was overly cautious during the war and there's a lot to be said about the Swedish government and media causing perhaps even more harm to Finland during the war than good, unnecessarily so. E.g. was it really necessary to crack down on volunteer recruitment in December 1939, only to later encourage it, with the damage already done? Or to publish news stories on how Germany is letting Finnish weapons purchases go through her territory, prompting the Germans to block such transits, delaying them by months? Or delay the shipment (shipments of purchases and aid to Finland had to go through Sweden during the war) of 157,000 artillery or mortar shell fuzes (the source doesn't specify which, but likely mortar) to Finland until the 12th of March, rendering their host shells that had arrived earlier at the beginning of March unusable, when it was known that peace was imminent? The answer is no, it was not necessary. Anyway, I've written about those in more detail in other threads, such as this one, so I don't want to repeat myself too much here.

Also see here. The guy who wrote this isn't exactly the most academically objective fellow, but he's gathered several snippets of such harmful acts by the Swedish government and press. Finnish-only, so you're going to have to use your browser's translator.

Some excerpts:

"Sweden declared it will not help

Sweden's government made a declaration 16.2.1940, that Sweden will not aid Finland with regular troops.[xix] Sweden's King released a statement backing the declaration 19.2.1940.[xx]

This was of course a great relief for Russia and a stab in the back for Finland. If Sweden had at least kept quiet, it would have been helpful to Finland.

Finland's Foreign Minister Väinö Tanner straight out told Sweden's Prime Minister Hansson, that the Swedish King's and government's declarations cost Finland Viipuri and Sortavala, and that Sweden should have kept quiet.[xxi]"

"It is difficult to understand, why Sweden felt it necessary to make these declarations, which both by their contents and their form weakened our chances to achieve tolerable terms of peace - in Moscow on the other hand the declarations were met with satisfaction."[xxii] -Marshal C.G. Mannerheim"

"Sweden as a mediator for peace

Unfortunately as a mediator for the achieving of peace between Finland and Russia, Sweden only pursued her own interest, attempting to secure peace by whatever the cost - after all it was Finland that would pay the price, not Sweden.

"I have spoken with the Marshal, who has some ideas, not suggestions. Firstly, Sweden under the current circumstances is unqualified as mediator, because her main interest is to save her own hide. Therefore we must attempt to get another country as mediator. The Marshal on his behalf had thought of the United States of America."[xxvi] -Prime Minister Risto Ryti in a government session 3.3.1940"

Sweden's policy was to not get entangled in WW2 no matter the cost, particularly when that cost would be borne by another country, in this case Finland.

 

[kimidf]

In the possible Country pack for Scandinavia, Iceland should also receive a small tree of its own as on road 56

 

[kimidf]

No more minors until the soviets and italy have reworked trees imo.

It depends on how the sales of this country pack are going, which is about to come out, most likely for next year they will repeat the play and take out another country pack for dates similar to these while simultaneously working great annual DLC

 

[Znail]

I think it's better for Russia and Italy if they are not part of the same DLC as that would give more time to work on either of them.

I also think that all Nordic countries should be done in the same DLC as that will help with making sure they work correctly together as several obvious alternate history paths come from making a diffrent choise when a neighbour asks for help. Mutual defence treaties would also be nice as things starts to heat up so would the more vulnerable ones be interested in that. That should possibly lead to forming an alliance. Right now so does a Nordic country need to invade the others to achive that wich should be possible by political means.

Considering that Finland also fits in with Russia so does it make more sense to have the Nordic countries in the same DLC as Russia.

 

[alexman]

personally im tired of ww2 i played every major country even several minors i done every scenario i stopped nazis i taken over the world i bought communism i want alt history now as i manly play mods. i just wanna have fun a slight change here and there to real history isnt that enticing im just hunting achievements now