I wish Paradox games took themselves more seriously

[Mindel]

Forget about being more serious. Right now I would settle for CK3 just being more coherent.

 

[sandro chronicler]

- The events... They are one of the biggest reasons why I myself sometimes have the perception that Ck3 is nothing but a meme generator. The focus on events is way too big. In the end it are just boxes of text with minimal consequences, and you are constantly interrupted by them. 1/4 them are badly written jokes, like my ruler using his utterly terrified animation for a snowball fight or receiving for the 10x time a cat named mittens. These events were also in Ck2 some of them even more silly than in its sequel, but let's be honest Ck2 never put its other mechanics on the sidelines for its events.

All of the new dlc's that so far have been introduced are in the favor of events, 80% of the content in Norse Lord's were just events. The royal Court, the biggest feature of the expansion is entirely designed for new events. Aside from culture (which is by the best received mechanic so far) nothing new has been introduced since Ck2. Even in the trailer for the console version 50% of screen time was spend on events. It is frustrating because developers could use the resources to improve major aspects of the game like Warfare instead of constantly focusing on writing events, which have almost 10% of the time meme like content.

Well, in reality large part of our lives - random events . In fact, such focus on events can, if done right, improve immersion. I noticed that most complains there is not about number of events, but about execution, like events not properly checking conditions. This can be solved. Similarly, lack of meaningful consequences can be solved. Proper use of event condition and flags can be used to create more logical system.

To facilitate this, many of the events triggered are non-serious to attempt light-hearted humor rather than interact with players in a meaningful way.

"light-hearted" aren't necessary means comedic, there are other options. Like more events for hanging out with family and friends...

 

[Skoonting]

But if the game takes itself serious, how will I get my epic norse polyamorous nudist incest roman empire by the year 1000 to post and get le updoots on reddit?

 

[wilcoxchar]

Oh no, fart jokes and bodily function humor, how horrifying. You would never find something as crass as fart jokes in real medieval history or literature, like in say, Geoffrey Chaucer, or part of an entire literary subgenre from medieval France. Yes, history was only serious business full of grit and grim and has no place for such humor, after all it's certainly not like such humor is as old as civilization itself. Harrumph, harrumph I say!

 

[Mindel]

Oh no, fart jokes and bodily function humor, how horrifying. You would never find something as crass as fart jokes in real medieval history or literature, like in say, Geoffrey Chaucer, or part of an entire literary subgenre from medieval France. Yes, history was only serious business full of grit and grim and has no place for such humor, after all it's certainly not like such humor is as old as civilization itself. Harrumph, harrumph I say!

Real life offers substantial content besides fart jokes.

 

[wilcoxchar]

Real life offers substantial content besides fart jokes.

And so does CK3. The only time I've ever gotten fart jokes have been from court jester events. And I got a free puppy out of it!

 

[Mindel]

And so does CK3.

Maybe you think so. About 95% of the people voting on OP's first post disagree with you.

 

[x4077]

Oh no, fart jokes and bodily function humor, how horrifying. You would never find something as crass as fart jokes in real medieval history or literature, like in say, Geoffrey Chaucer, or part of an entire literary subgenre from medieval France. Yes, history was only serious business full of grit and grim and has no place for such humor, after all it's certainly not like such humor is as old as civilization itself. Harrumph, harrumph I say!

Did Chaucer have the same exact fart joke 2-3 times per chapter? Because that is what I get per ruler in my games. Or I did until I just removed it from the available possibilities because I was so sick and tired of seeing it.

And so does CK3. The only time I've ever gotten fart jokes have been from court jester events. And I got a free puppy out of it!

Then you don't do many romance schemes, because the 'somebody farted' event happens once every two romances for me.

 

[Myrkull]

Then you don't do many romance schemes, because the 'somebody farted' event happens once every two romances for me.

Actually this kind of event can be used in interesting way, in one of the ASOIAF books there was a situation from the past described by one of the characters, when one of the candidates for marriage farted, was rejected by his bride to be and this way everything went differently with some bigger consequences for a whole realm.
But this kind of events should be really rare and unrepetetive.

 

[Rifal]

Actually this kind of event can be used in interesting way, in one of the ASOIAF books there was a situation from the past described by one of the characters, when one of the candidates for marriage farted, was rejected by his bride to be and this way everything went differently with some bigger consequences for a whole realm.
But this kind of events should be really rare and unrepetetive.

We should not be using the literary works of Mr Martin as a source. But maybe as some inspiration for the grittier bits of the game, if Pdx ever grows up and add any.

 

[Myrkull]

We should not be using the literary works of Mr Martin as a source. But maybe as some inspiration for the grittier bits of the game, if Pdx ever grows up and add any.

As a source no, but some parts can be used as inspiration.

 

[Rubidium]

I'd say Game of Thrones is already far too influential on how CK3 depicts the Middle Ages.

The rampant incest is probably the most obvious aspect (seriously guys, medieval folks were no more likely to be incestuous than anyone else, and when it did happen, much like today, it was generally less "true love despite our blood" and more "creepy older guy molests female relative under his care").

Likewise the in-game Norse, who have far more in common with GRRM's Ironborn than they do with historical Scandinavians.

 

[Ninaran]

It's gotten to the point where I'm not sure any more if it's just stupid jokes because "haha incest funny" or if someone's actually living out a fetish in the game...

 

[Myrkull]

Likewise the in-game Norse, who have far more in common with GRRM's Ironborn than they do with historical Scandinavians.

I think Vikings tv series was more influential here, but I don't think in-game Norse are badly depicted.

 

[sandro chronicler]

it was generally less "true love despite our blood" and more "creepy older guy molests female relative under his care").

Sorry for nit picking, but IRL "creepy older gal molests male relative under her care" are just as common. (i personally knew victim of such)

but I don't think in-game Norse are badly depicted.

Well, not. For starters they have Bellicose ethos instead of more appropriate Egalitarian. And then there their religion...

 

[explosiveboom3]

Oh no, fart jokes and bodily function humor, how horrifying. You would never find something as crass as fart jokes in real medieval history or literature, like in say, Geoffrey Chaucer, or part of an entire literary subgenre from medieval France. Yes, history was only serious business full of grit and grim and has no place for such humor, after all it's certainly not like such humor is as old as civilization itself. Harrumph, harrumph I say!

It’s less a problem with the fact that there are so many fart jokes and more a problem with the fact that the events basically grab random people that you have no reason to care about or don’t fit the situation at all and often lead to very unrealistic situations. The events don’t seem to check if you are at war with a person, the age of the people involved, or really fit any realistic expectations of a ruler during this time period. To reference Tiax’s thread, being able to throw the spouse of your liege into a water trough is an example of the kind of events most people seem to dislike. It’s that kind of tone, where you can do cool or childish things without consequences that people are upset about, it just so happens that bodily humor events are the ones that are most seen due to Paradox themselves using them to market Royal Court, and due to the fact that bodily humor is a pretty childish thing. I just think that we need to turn the argument away from “fart jokes bad” or “no they’re historical” to “Is the tone of the game appropriate and immersive enough, and do the game’s systems fit this tone and immerse me into the world?”

 

[vyshan]

We should not be using the literary works of Mr Martin as a source. But maybe as some inspiration for the grittier bits of the game, if Pdx ever grows up and add any.

What we should be using his works for are the detailed descriptions of feasts. Forget the Incest, if you read the books you know that GRRM loves food porn, and will go on for quite a while describing all the foods and drinks at a feast.

 

[Krajzen]

We should not be using the literary works of Mr Martin as a source. But maybe as some inspiration for the grittier bits of the game, if Pdx ever grows up and add any.

Martin has a different kind of problem, when he thoughts 'grimdark grotesque parade of sadism' means 'realistic middle ages'. The ratio of extreme horror happening in ASOIAF in relation to pleasant occurences is absurd, and the depravity of that horror is akin to Victorian/Enlightenment era borderline fetishistic depictions of middle ages.
I especially hate his insistence on detailed descriptions of depraved sexuality, and that feeling peaks at his obsession with detailed sexual violence against children (with very little story purpose) . Martin, I work with teenage girls daily as a teacher, you probably had no contact with this group for 50 years, come here for a month and then we'll see if you have heart and brain to invent new unecessary detailed horror for them every chapter. There is so much to respect in his prose, shame he went into the typical "grimdark sadomasochism = realism" pit of modern culture. Yes I know his saga is anti war and how awful war was across history.

I am afraid that GoT influence shaped a lot of ck3 issues. Tv series began just a year before ck2 release and only really exploded around what, 2013? So core ck2 was designed and influenced without major Got influences. It was also the humble game before the golden age of paradox popularity. Then two phenomenons fueled each other for years. Ck3 was being developed at the peak of GoT popularity, which completely collapsed because of miserable finale. But the subtle cultural impact of grotesque, cynical, grimdark, utterly amoral depiction of middle ages could have been great anyway. Incest, insanity, assasination, betrayal, scandal, sociopathy hiding everywhere just behind the corner; protagonists looking at religion with casual, sarcastic, agnostic distance of a modern day man; religion in middle age context as an unpleasant external force to be manipulated in the name of power; very little to no focus on beautiful aspects of medieval civilisation (good things are individual and rebelling against the norm) etc.

Ck2 had a marketing with a noble knight in the background (yeah said knight was maybe on an awful crusade but moral ambiguity is welcome unlike naivete or grimdark), ck3 has a baby being assasinated by a snake in the background; welcome in our grotesque world of killing children and incest for fun If anybody is not seeing the connection between that and silly humor & not serious atmosphere of ck3, I think its paradoxical but fundamental connection. If Ck3 was a serious, emotional game, profoundly role playing medieval human being and actual elementary human psychology, then such things would be obviously played for horror. It is not, it is meme generator and children killing is a joke you o serve from a dissociated distance, just like everything else.

 

[Rubidium]

Sorry for nit picking, but IRL "creepy older gal molests male relative under her care" are just as common. (i personally knew victim of such)

And also creepy older person molests person of same sex under their care. But yeah, IRL incest in general is less "haha, funny" and more abusive.

Well, not. For starters they have Bellicose ethos instead of more appropriate Egalitarian. And then there their religion...

Almost everything about the portrayal of Norse in-game revolves around fighting and warfare. If you read Germanic literature, "good" kings are supposed to be fair and generous (to the point that "ring-giver" is used as basically a synonym for king). Does any of this get reflected in-game? No, instead Paradox goes all in for the portrayal of them as kill-bots who live solely for battle, giving them Wrathful and Vengeful as virtues and Forgiving as a vice (I'll leave it to you to imagine the likelihood of any human culture saying "a king who goes into random rages and never forgives any slight, real or imagined, is what I want in reality, as opposed to in stories").

And of course they go on to give them super-human berserker powers (the ability to rip people in half, with a very high probability compared to regular knights, resulting in any battle against Viking raiders being very likely to kill off several of your knights even if you win). And ludicrous CBs (even most Viking raiders were raiders, not conquerors; they rarely posed a threat to conquer any reasonably strong realm, whereas in-game they have a good chance of conquering East Francia within the first year). "Patron deities" (hint: most pagan societies explicitly avoided tying themselves to strongly to any single god, as opposed to making offerings to whichever deity happened to be appropriate for the task you were about to do; the idea of a personal connection with God is very much an Abrahamic thing) that give them free bonuses.

We'll ignore that they get the best MAAs in the game, as that was presumably a side effect of the flavor pack having a touch of play-to-win.

 

[sandro chronicler]

Almost everything about the portrayal of Norse in-game revolves around fighting and warfare....

They also ignored the fact that vikings was minority among Norse people. Exception, not a rule. In fact, one of possible interpretation of word "viking" is "one who live not like everybody else".