I Was Once Content...

[SnowHawkKiller]

Crusader Kings II used to be my favorite game, but recent changes have made me feel forced to launch the game in my library; like when you buy a game you don't like but you're trying to get your money's worth. I used to enjoy playing Ironman because I liked having achievement to show off for one of my favorite games. But the addition of coalitions, shattered retreat (although I've become "used" to this), and forced call to arms has made me hate this game and I think its generally not fun anymore. Before anyone asks, I'm currently playing with the latest beta patch 2.5.2 and coalitions are still not fun. I still end up sitting there for hours, waiting for a coalition to tick down which at 100% takes 40 years. This game isn't deep enough to have you sit there and twiddle your thumbs for 40 years. If CK2 had a very complex internal management system then maybe this would be okay, but the point here is that there's absolutely nothing to do for 40 years which even on five speed is a couple hours. If threat is going to be viable at all, there needs to be some caps for threat gain. Vassalization should give half the threat that conquering something gives since its peaceful and not warmongering. The cap for conquering should be something like County 10% >>> Duchy 20% >>> Kingdom or Higher 50%. This would work well and by the way the 5% threat threshold is too low, it should be higher and 50% threshold for co religious coalitions is too low as well >.>

 

[The7Sins]

Roll back to the last good patch 2.4.5 and disable that abomination of a DLC Conclave. With the devs all but confirming there will not be any more map expansions there is really no reason to force yourself to keep up to date with them game especially when Conclave and the patches after 2.4.5 are horrible. Better to play an out of date yet fun version of the game a version you bought the game to play rather than force yourself to play a poorly optimized, unfun, horrible, not what you bought the game for, yet up to date version.

 

[DukeDayve]

I kind of feel the same way, but not for the same reasons. I too used to play CK2 for 2-4 hours a day. Used to daydream about whether I was going to continue a saved game or start a new one when I got home from work. I had a little period of intense play after Conclave came out but now I'm back to starting it up, playing for 10 or 20 minutes then wondering why I'm even playing anymore.

It's not that I don't like the game because I do, I just don't like so many of the things added and that I can't pick and choose between which ones I enable and disable unless I play an old patch, which disables lots of things I don't like but also disables lots of things I do like.

I guess my main problems though are the terrible performance since Rajas of India and the fact that large realms are super stable in every game I play, especially since Conclave where Muslims are every bit as invincible as the HRE and Fatimids used to be in earlier versions of CK2. It's just boring to play game after game after game after game where the Abbasids own most of the eastern half of the map, the Umayyads own most of the western part of the map, the Byzantines own most of the center of the map, and everything in the north is an ugly mish mash of independent counties who can never get their shit together.

Plus the endless "increased council power" rebellions I keep having to deal with no matter how nice I am to my councillors and no matter how many concessions I give them. It's tedius as hell. And the rebellions, when they actually fire, are so easily put down, which means every game I play now I end up with all my vassals in jail just to shut the the hell up about wanting more power. Most recently this resulted in a Byzantine Empire game where, after only 4 years, all but 3 of my duke-tier vassals were in jail for 3 consecutive "increased council power" rebellions. And I intend to keep them there too. I will not release them, because all they'll do is rebel indefinately, no matter how much I give them.

 

[smellymummy]

Crusader Kings II used to be my favorite game, but recent changes have made me feel forced to launch the game in my library; like when you buy a game you don't like but you're trying to get your money's worth. I used to enjoy playing Ironman because I liked having achievement to show off for one of my favorite games. But the addition of coalitions, shattered retreat (although I've become "used" to this), and forced call to arms has made me hate this game and I think its generally not fun anymore. Before anyone asks, I'm currently playing with the latest beta patch 2.5.2 and coalitions are still not fun. I still end of sitting there for hours waiting for a coalition to tick down which at 100% takes 40 years. This game isn't deep enough to have you sit there and twiddle your thumbs for 40 years. If CK2 had a very complex internal management system then maybe this would be okay, but the point here is that there's absolutely nothing to do for 40 years which even on five speed is a couple hours. If threat is going to viable at all there needs to be some caps for threat gain. Vassalization should give half the threat that conquering something gives since its peaceful and not warmongering. The cap for conquering should be something like County 10% >>> Duchy 20% >>> Kingdom or Higher 50%. This would work well and by the way the 5% threat threshold is too low, it should be higher and 50% threshold for co religious coalitions is too low as well >.>

Sucks. Stop playing, wait for CK3. Or jump back into CK2 when the itch comes, because it will, it always does!

 

[SnowHawkKiller]

Sucks. Stop playing, wait for CK3. Or jump back into CK2 when the itch comes, because it will, it always does!

It came right before Conclave launched and I was having a pretty fun time, Conclave and that horrendous patch launched and now I'm not really having any fun.

 

[Atlantians]

I have never seen a patch or DLC reacted to the this one was.

 

[Azarias59]

Just use mods like the rest of us; there really isn't any reason to be playing vanilla CK2.

 

[Atlantians]

Just use mods like the rest of us; there really isn't any reason to be playing vanilla CK2.

Um, I do. Trying to work around all the bad AI and gameplay caused by the latest patch/DLC with mods is a nightmare.

 

[Hiigara1356]

I'm several generations into an aggressively expansionist run as the ERE and have had not one rebellion, nor any wars against defensive pacts, though they have certainly formed from time to time. The game you guys are describing sounds frustrating and I hope it turns around for you - I honestly don't know what I'm doing differently that's resulting in such a better experience.

 

[SnowHawkKiller]

Just use mods like the rest of us; there really isn't any reason to be playing vanilla CK2.

I liked getting the achievements since this used to be my favorite game and I enjoyed displaying the hardest ones on my Steam profile.

 

[Monphat]

Vanilla Crusader Kings 2 stopped being fun for me around Charlemagne/WoL launch. It became evident that my vision of how this game should be designed is very different from Paradox's point of view.

I advocate for deep, RPG-focused gameplay with emphasis on court intrigue, constant power struggles, betrayals, dynastic rivalries, marriages, education of children, Church politics and overall atmosphere of being a Medieval ruler with all the fun that comes from it. Game of Thrones, if you will. My approach to this game was called "Sims-like" and I somewhat agree because that's exactly how I would design a game about this time period: focus on relationships with other characters in order to extend your power against all odds with appropriate strategic elements to support this whole idea of Medieval roleplay game.

Paradox, on the other hand, increasingly focused on what they know well: breadth of a map and strategic elements, basically more and more recreating Europa Universalis in Medieval setting where RPG elements are there to support strategic ones. Don't get me wrong, Europa Universalis series is a line of awesome games and I enjoy them as much and maybe more than CK2. But CK2 setting is just not compatible with that kind of gameplay. Empire-building and empire-maintaining as Johan defined EU4's core idea have almost nothing to do with Medieval period defined by remoteness and lack of communications. Conquering new lands was not the highest priority for the rulers of time period, it happened naturally, step by step as the main focus of the period - extending their power over the realm took most of their attention.

Pretty much all CK2 shortcomings come from the fact that developers treat this time period almost exactly the same as Early modern era. All the anachronistic de-jure Empires, coalitions, rapid blobbing, blob stability, lack of cultural differences, casual claim fabrications, loyal state, loyal army etc. - all have nothing to do with the game's time period. With the Conclave this problem became blatantly obvious because instead of solving said problem, DLC just shows you in detail all the shortcomings and limitations of CK2's design as a whole. Not to mention common Paradox problem of weak AI that is not capable of dealing with said mechanics.

Medieval era is not compatible with classic strategy gameplay and I hope that developers will understand this one day.

 

[Rostan]

It's not that I don't like the game because I do, I just don't like so many of the things added and that I can't pick and choose between which ones I enable and disable unless I play an old patch, which disables lots of things I don't like but also disables lots of things I do like.

I guess my main problems though are the terrible performance since Rajas of India and the fact that large realms are super stable in every game I play, especially since Conclave where Muslims are every bit as invincible as the HRE and Fatimids used to be in earlier versions of CK2. It's just boring to play game after game after game after game where the Abbasids own most of the eastern half of the map, the Umayyads own most of the western part of the map, the Byzantines own most of the center of the map, and everything in the north is an ugly mish mash of independent counties who can never get their shit together.

I cannot echo this enough. I tried to roll back to patch 2.04, and other than an issue with the game playing "in window" only, the amazing performance was balanced out by issues such as the replacement of freely selected plots by the use of the assassination button, as well as the missing Way of Life events, the new Council system (which I like), the poor portraits, etc.

Sadly, Paradox has a habit of railroading changes they like onto the players without giving them an option. CK2 would be an amazing game if the post-vanilla changes would be introduced as options, not as changes to the game. Toggle India, coalitions/infamy and shattered retreat off and the game is amazing again. Of course this is my opinion, maybe others feel differently, hence options rather than hardcoded changes would be an interesting approach.

 

[Galarel]

I agree. CK2 with conclave is not fun anymore. Coalitions of different religious groups banding together... completely unrealistic. A few days ago I had a war in which christians and pagans together were fightning agaist me in a defensive war. Im almost pretty sure pope was in that war too on the christian side... oh come on guys ... Pope alongside pagans ...??? Just for taking two duchies near India ??? Vassals going crazy and warring everyone around you and you cant do a damn thing about it. Its a big mess right now and you even recieve threat if they win their war ... wtf?! My vassal just kill everyone around MY REALM in suicidal wars and (if somehow they manage to win) I take responsibity for his actions and I cant even stop him doing that. Its complete absurd. Yesterday I took 30% threat just for taking one duchy as Persia in India... and then even some europeans created defensive pacts agains me ... silly. My empire wasnt even close to Europe. Im playing on beta patch.

 

[SnowHawkKiller]

I'm several generations into an aggressively expansionist run as the ERE and have had not one rebellion, nor any wars against defensive pacts, though they have certainly formed from time to time. The game you guys are describing sounds frustrating and I hope it turns around for you - I honestly don't know what I'm doing differently that's resulting in such a better experience.

Considering they lowered the threat threshold for coalitions to form to 5% in the beta patch and I believe they made it so taking a county is capped at 10% (yet vassalization of a count still gives you 14% or higher...) its literally impossible to not have a coalition form against you. Lets be honest guys they're still coalitions and are in no way defensive pacts, they're still too well organized and unrealistic and would have to be 100% regional if they wanted them to be "defensive pacts".

What utter bs, I gained 32.55% threat for the vassalization of a Duke who controlled two counties and earlier 14% for the vassalization of a count...

Here's for anyone who wants a picture of the low threshold of 5% threat for "Defensive Pacts" and the fact that co religious pacts form after the way too low threshold of 50% threat and the fact that despite everyone asking for them to be regional, they're very much not regional.

Oh and how counter intuitive, let me grant independence to the land I just conquered so I can go conquer more land...

 

[The Duke of GTFO]

The game is fairly tedious.

 

[R'hllor]

Just use mods like the rest of us; there really isn't any reason to be playing vanilla CK2.

Not even mods can remove all the bad stuff like automatic calls to arms at the moment. The best option is unfortunately to just roll back to 2.4.5 or whatever was the best in your opinion.

 

[Castorem]

And Paradox just ignores all fan requests. No matter how legitimate and concerned they are. I'm desperate too. I wish, at least once they'd listen to what the people who're spending their money on their products have to say...

 

[R'hllor]

And Paradox just ignores all fan requests. No matter how legitimate and concerned they are. I'm desperate too. I wish, at least once they'd listen to what the people who're spending their money on their products have to say...

That's pretty unfair, as devs do read the forums and try to address the fans concerns (like how they're changing coalitions a lot in 2.5.2).

 

[Rostan]

And Paradox just ignores all fan requests. No matter how legitimate and concerned they are. I'm desperate too. I wish, at least once they'd listen to what the people who're spending their money on their products have to say...

This could be their undoing if a serious competitor ever emerges. Paradox has a monopoly on quality grand strategy games for now (and overall has amazing, quality games, to be fair), but this propensity towards arbitrary railroading and limiting player choice is often infuriating.

To be fair, devs do read comments and suggestions and do take them into accout, but this is sadly usually a posteriori. Also, due to various factors, some key issues never seem to get solved (e.g., in CK2, lag).

 

[SnowHawkKiller]

This could be their undoing if a serious competitor ever emerges. Paradox has a monopoly on quality grand strategy games for now (and overall has amazing, quality games, to be fair), but this propensity towards arbitrary railroading and limiting player choice is often infuriating.

To be fair, devs do read comments and suggestions and do take them into accout, but this is sadly usually a posteriori. Also, due to various factors, some key issues never seem to get solved (e.g., in CK2, lag).

I hate the railroading and limiting of player choice they'be been leaning towards recently. I really felt like things like Way of Life were a step in the right direction as they added more roleplaying to the game and helped with the character focused aspect of CK2, which is one of its strongest features.