• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

EmperorZelos

Major
65 Badges
Nov 28, 2014
708
1.079
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
I picked a humerous title, but it relates to a problem I have noticed with AI behavior, I am not aware if it is a bug or intended but it is a catastrophy in behavior if you ask me.

When going to war I have noticed the AI tend to do kitchen-sink battles. That is they throw in nigh everything, even the kitchen sink, into the battle. Pulling troops into it from far away all troops converging onto the battle and if you yourself throw in more troops you are merely prolonging it giving the AI chance to get the rest to come.

While it makes sense that you come and help if you are close by and not adding much else of significance. I have seen the AI grab units quite far away trying to walk toward the battle and enter it, stopping both valuable seiges that were almost done. This is making the wars with the AIs becoming more of a "who has the biggest penis" contest where the metaphorical penis is the size of the army. There is no possibility for strategy if you're the weaker one in a war, you're pretty much screwed from the beginning to the end.

This combined with them keeping these enormous piles together when the supply rate in the area is so far below the stack size. I have seen them have stacks of 120 and more in a province that is only capable to carry slightly above 30! While occassionally going over it is benifitial, doing it as often as the AI does will do nothing but drain the manpower pool and I basically have to do the same just to match them, rather than both sides trying to be more sneaky with maybe 30 stacks all over the place as they try each other on in a more strategic manner.

My suggestion? Make the AI more sensitive to strategic value in seiges and distance, less willing to throw everything into a battle and make it hate attrition as much as we humans do.
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Upvote 0

Imgran

General
28 Badges
Nov 2, 2003
2.170
1.554
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Well that's OK, because the AI doesn't take nearly as much attrition as quickly as the player does, so it's all cool.

yet one more way that the AI is playing a completely different game.
 

EmperorZelos

Major
65 Badges
Nov 28, 2014
708
1.079
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
Well that's OK, because the AI doesn't take nearly as much attrition as quickly as the player does, so it's all cool.

yet one more way that the AI is playing a completely different game.
Ramp up the attrition to normal levels for them and make them more sensitive to it because seeing 120 stacks on a 30 supply province is redicolous when it moves around, not quickly dissapate but it remains there standing.
 

Imgran

General
28 Badges
Nov 2, 2003
2.170
1.554
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
What's ridiculous is that 150 regiments siege my bottleneck fort with a supply limit of about 20 and at least 130 of them survive the siege despite being there for years in a province that c an't possibly feed them
 
  • 2
Reactions:

AmbroStoics

Captain
1 Badges
Sep 19, 2014
311
164
  • Europa Universalis IV
The problem is that it also forces the player to play by the AIs rules. In a war with many participants, like HRE religious war, you often see 150-200k stacks going at it against each other, while you are trying to attack on many fronts somewhat realistically. Yet if you want your allies to win you have to move all your stacks to the battle, on route to which they suffer crazy attrition, cause you are not the AI.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

EmperorZelos

Major
65 Badges
Nov 28, 2014
708
1.079
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
The problem is that it also forces the player to play by the AIs rules. In a war with many participants, like HRE religious war, you often see 150-200k stacks going at it against each other, while you are trying to attack on many fronts somewhat realistically. Yet if you want your allies to win you have to move all your stacks to the battle, on route to which they suffer crazy attrition, cause you are not the AI.
Exactly, which is the entire problem here all along.

How many times in history of warfare, especially old warfare like that, did you put 200 thousand men into one single battle and kept on fighting just forcing ever more men into the battle? Never, none would do that.
 

Sagif

First Lieutenant
50 Badges
May 28, 2015
265
183
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
But remember, the AI never does that unless it has the possibility to win. If the battle is doomed from the start or they are really far away from the possible end-battle, they will not come.
 

AmbroStoics

Captain
1 Badges
Sep 19, 2014
311
164
  • Europa Universalis IV
Yeah, but what constitutes the AI thinking he could win? Since their armies trickle in 4-5k stacks at a time especially when minors are involved, it creates and endless cycle, so unless you see one side really unbalanced war (like a 3:1 or something), the AI will just not give these battles up.

AI behaviour in wars is very silly at times. I've had my European OPM vassals send a 5k regiments to aid me in conquest of Java as the Netherlands. There really should be some way for the AI to evaluate which battles to take.
 
  • 1
Reactions: