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wielkiciensteam

aka ItsJustMyShadow
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Jan 31, 2016
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Another DD and another gameplay mechanic that is entirely balanced and designed around using your magic mana points. And that is really upseting. How can it be that everything player would do in I:R has to involve using mana resources? It's wrong direction, I don't want I:R to be EU4 in ancient times.
 
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I don't think you'll love our games from now on.

I love all your games (few thousand hours accumulated)! I... I just want them to be great...er? Like, seriously, mana is good concept but on a limited scale. You cannot (shouldn't?) design every feature of the game with mana in mind. Managing pops with mana is too much, IMO.

Love you Johan. You are god.
 
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From what I read you will be able to mod away or mod in power costs. So instead of costing a power something could cost money. That means you can technically modify the balance around the powers as you wish.
 
Like, seriously, mana is good concept but on a limited scale.

Because mana is not really the correct name, it's currency and it's a necessity for transactions. Time too is a currency so even a passive effect involve a kind of your mana..
 
Monarch points have many advantages from a design and game development perspective.

I have played many games without monarch points and it is pretty much the same story all the time.
 
Because mana is not really the correct name, it's currency and it's a necessity for transactions. Time too is a currency so even a passive effect involve a kind of your mana..

We all know what meaning mana has on this forum: admin, diplo and military power from EU4. Now more of the same is going to be present in I:R
 
Because mana is not really the correct name, it's currency and it's a necessity for transactions. Time too is a currency so even a passive effect involve a kind of your mana..
Time isn't a currency, it is a physical concept. On the other hand, the point can be made that we must choose between productive time and time spent on leisure although I don't support this theory, as I believe it is stretching the concept too much, and most of the times is hard to define what we consider leisure and what we consider labour.

Regardless I believe everyone knows what mana is as opposed to money in game terms, so I really believe you are making a moot point
 
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We all know what meaning mana has on this forum: admin, diplo and military power from EU4. Now more of the same is going to be present in I:R

admin, diplo and military power / energy, mineral, food and influence / CIC, MIC, NIC and PP they are all currencies with just a different label. Do you think that there is any difference between your ruler giving X admin / Y diplo / Z mil and GER giving you X CIC / Y MIC / Z NIC or your empire giving you a base X Energy / Y Mineral / Z Food?

Time isn't a currency, it is a physical concept.

In-game "Time": an hourly tick, a daily tick, a turn..

Regardless I believe everyone knows what mana is as opposed to money in game terms, so I really believe you are making a moot point

"Currency" as design concept.. money is a currency but a currency is not only money.
 
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Mana is quantification of resources/potential. Not sure why it's such a big deal. If you don't want mana how can you effectively measure how efficient a ruler can be and how much he/she can achieve? Removing monarch points would basically result in all rulers having the same potential.

So before we jump on the mana-hate bandwagen, maybe imagine yourself as content designer for a second and come up with a better detailed alternative? I would like to see people provide detailed alternatives to monarch points. And it'll help us judge whether the mana system can be replaced by a better one or not.
 
Mana is quantification of resources/potential. Not sure why it's such a big deal. If you don't want mana how can you effectively measure how efficient a ruler can be and how much he/she can achieve? Removing monarch points would basically result in all rulers having the same potential.

So before we jump on the mana-hate bandwagen, maybe imagine yourself as content designer for a second and come up with a better detailed alternative? I would like to see people provide detailed alternatives to monarch points. And it'll help us judge whether the mana system can be replaced by a better one or not.

CK2 can measure how efficient a ruler can be just fine without random mana points. Skills and traits in that game make sense and largely dictate what your character can do, unless you already have a massive realm for example your inbred imbecile with 2 martial probably won't be the next Alexander. Having an heir pop out at 0/0/0 and never being able to change doesn't make sense and you have little to no control over it. It's worse in every way imaginable.
 
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In-game "Time": an hourly tick, a daily tick, a turn..



"Currency" as design concept.. money is a currency but a currency is not only money.
I understood your point, but I still believe that it is hollow. Is true that mana is a currency as well as money, in game terms, but that they both belong to the same category doesn't really mean anything, as they are both different concepts

As for time it isn't a type of currency. Time is required to make transactions, and they may extend thought it, but it isn't currency. It would be the same as to call space a type of currency: sure you can exchange it if rights of property exist, but without it you can't make transactions
 
Since this is going to be a character heavy game with lots of offices to hold, I don't understand why they're not making actions dependent on the skills of people holding the relevant offices like CKII and instead opted for monarch-generated points that can somehow be saved over time.
 
CK2 can measure how efficient a ruler can be just fine without random mana points. Skills and traits in that game make sense and largely dictate what your character can do, unless you already have a massive realm for example your inbred imbecile with 2 martial probably won't be the next Alexander. Having an heir pop out at 0/0/0 and never being able to change doesn't make sense and you have little to no control over it. It's worse in every way imaginable.

CK2 is a character-based game. It isn't fit for Imperator Rome. Some actions require a part of your rulers potential (quantified as mana). With traits it probably isn't possible to achieve that (imagine if culture conversion just came down to whether your ruler had such trait or not it wouldn't make sense). Also traits have a lot of luck/randomness in them too just like mana. And again luck was a major factor historically. As a ruler for example you're not always guaranteed a competent heir. Many heirs were incompetent and undermined the stability and the power of the realm when they ascended to the throne. That destiny factor that even rulers could do nothing against is represented by the aspect of randomness in PDX games.
 
As for time it isn't a type of currency.

Recruiting an INF regiment costs X ducats and Y daily tick (time)

Time is required to make transactions

Developing a province costs X admin and 0 daily tick (no time, instant but still a transaction)

Is true that mana is a currency as well as money, in game terms, but that they both belong to the same category doesn't really mean anything, as they are both different concepts

Please elaborate, if I use X to get Y where X in (A, B, C, D) how can A be a different concept that B? It's a different representation of the same thing.
 
CK2 is a character-based game. It isn't fit for Imperator Rome. Some actions require a part of your rulers potential (quantified as mana). With traits it probably isn't possible to achieve the that. Also traits have a lot of luck/randomness in them too just like mana. And again luck was a major factor historically. As a ruler for example you're not always guaranteed a competent heir. Many heirs were incompetent and undermined the stability and the power of the realm when they ascended to the throne. That destiny factor that even rulers could do nothing against is represented by the aspect of randomness in PDX games.

I:R isn't totally a state based game, characters are present. They could very much have at least some CK2 type stuff present to avoid the constant mana nonsense. There's also a difference between not being guaranteed a competent heir and your heir not changing at all from the moment they're born to when they're a 30 year old adult. If you get a 0/0/0 heir in EU4 you're just boned, if you get a bad heir in CK2 you can try to at least get them a good education to try and salvage things. Randomness is fine but not in massive amounts.
 
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