• Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
Status
Not open for further replies.

wielkiciensteam

I'm not the content one
88 Badges
Jan 31, 2016
820
1.178
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • Sengoku
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Another DD and another gameplay mechanic that is entirely balanced and designed around using your magic mana points. And that is really upseting. How can it be that everything player would do in I:R has to involve using mana resources? It's wrong direction, I don't want I:R to be EU4 in ancient times.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

wielkiciensteam

I'm not the content one
88 Badges
Jan 31, 2016
820
1.178
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • Sengoku
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
I don't think you'll love our games from now on.
I love all your games (few thousand hours accumulated)! I... I just want them to be great...er? Like, seriously, mana is good concept but on a limited scale. You cannot (shouldn't?) design every feature of the game with mana in mind. Managing pops with mana is too much, IMO.

Love you Johan. You are god.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

DreadGrunt

Captain
37 Badges
Nov 1, 2009
463
100
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
I don't think you'll love our games from now on.
At least CK2 is moddable and we can pump out stuff for new time periods on that :/

Mana is the worst part of EU4 and it's a damn shame to see it popping up in more and more titles.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

loup99

Godogost of Armorica
78 Badges
Jan 22, 2013
16.162
4.352
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 500k Club
  • Pride of Nations
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • March of the Eagles
  • Rome Gold
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
From what I read you will be able to mod away or mod in power costs. So instead of costing a power something could cost money. That means you can technically modify the balance around the powers as you wish.
 

FrancescoT

Field Marshal
Demi Moderator
47 Badges
Aug 8, 2009
7.737
433
41
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • PDXCon 2019 "Baron"
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Like, seriously, mana is good concept but on a limited scale.
Because mana is not really the correct name, it's currency and it's a necessity for transactions. Time too is a currency so even a passive effect involve a kind of your mana..
 

Denkt

Left the forums permamently
42 Badges
May 28, 2010
15.763
6.342
Monarch points have many advantages from a design and game development perspective.

I have played many games without monarch points and it is pretty much the same story all the time.
 

wielkiciensteam

I'm not the content one
88 Badges
Jan 31, 2016
820
1.178
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • Sengoku
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Because mana is not really the correct name, it's currency and it's a necessity for transactions. Time too is a currency so even a passive effect involve a kind of your mana..
We all know what meaning mana has on this forum: admin, diplo and military power from EU4. Now more of the same is going to be present in I:R
 

Denkt

Left the forums permamently
42 Badges
May 28, 2010
15.763
6.342
We all know what meaning mana has on this forum: admin, diplo and military power from EU4. Now more of the same is going to be present in I:R
Wrong: Characters vs random ruler is a huge difference.
 

wielkiciensteam

I'm not the content one
88 Badges
Jan 31, 2016
820
1.178
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 2
  • Sengoku
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • 1
Reactions:

qer

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 12, 2011
1.078
832
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Rome Gold
  • Cities: Skylines
Because mana is not really the correct name, it's currency and it's a necessity for transactions. Time too is a currency so even a passive effect involve a kind of your mana..
Time isn't a currency, it is a physical concept. On the other hand, the point can be made that we must choose between productive time and time spent on leisure although I don't support this theory, as I believe it is stretching the concept too much, and most of the times is hard to define what we consider leisure and what we consider labour.

Regardless I believe everyone knows what mana is as opposed to money in game terms, so I really believe you are making a moot point
 
  • 1
Reactions:

FrancescoT

Field Marshal
Demi Moderator
47 Badges
Aug 8, 2009
7.737
433
41
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • PDXCon 2019 "Baron"
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
We all know what meaning mana has on this forum: admin, diplo and military power from EU4. Now more of the same is going to be present in I:R
admin, diplo and military power / energy, mineral, food and influence / CIC, MIC, NIC and PP they are all currencies with just a different label. Do you think that there is any difference between your ruler giving X admin / Y diplo / Z mil and GER giving you X CIC / Y MIC / Z NIC or your empire giving you a base X Energy / Y Mineral / Z Food?

Time isn't a currency, it is a physical concept.
In-game "Time": an hourly tick, a daily tick, a turn..

Regardless I believe everyone knows what mana is as opposed to money in game terms, so I really believe you are making a moot point
"Currency" as design concept.. money is a currency but a currency is not only money.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Nicolas-frm

Major
27 Badges
Oct 24, 2015
593
629
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Rome Gold
Mana is quantification of resources/potential. Not sure why it's such a big deal. If you don't want mana how can you effectively measure how efficient a ruler can be and how much he/she can achieve? Removing monarch points would basically result in all rulers having the same potential.

So before we jump on the mana-hate bandwagen, maybe imagine yourself as content designer for a second and come up with a better detailed alternative? I would like to see people provide detailed alternatives to monarch points. And it'll help us judge whether the mana system can be replaced by a better one or not.
 

DreadGrunt

Captain
37 Badges
Nov 1, 2009
463
100
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
Mana is quantification of resources/potential. Not sure why it's such a big deal. If you don't want mana how can you effectively measure how efficient a ruler can be and how much he/she can achieve? Removing monarch points would basically result in all rulers having the same potential.

So before we jump on the mana-hate bandwagen, maybe imagine yourself as content designer for a second and come up with a better detailed alternative? I would like to see people provide detailed alternatives to monarch points. And it'll help us judge whether the mana system can be replaced by a better one or not.
CK2 can measure how efficient a ruler can be just fine without random mana points. Skills and traits in that game make sense and largely dictate what your character can do, unless you already have a massive realm for example your inbred imbecile with 2 martial probably won't be the next Alexander. Having an heir pop out at 0/0/0 and never being able to change doesn't make sense and you have little to no control over it. It's worse in every way imaginable.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Yiorgakis

Corporal
9 Badges
Jan 9, 2016
34
2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Impire
  • Magicka
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Imperator: Rome
What if Hitpoints are introduced to counteract manapoints? Imperator,to me, can evolve into a wonderful mobile game with all kinds of points.
 

qer

Colonel
31 Badges
Nov 12, 2011
1.078
832
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Rome Gold
  • Cities: Skylines
In-game "Time": an hourly tick, a daily tick, a turn..



"Currency" as design concept.. money is a currency but a currency is not only money.
I understood your point, but I still believe that it is hollow. Is true that mana is a currency as well as money, in game terms, but that they both belong to the same category doesn't really mean anything, as they are both different concepts

As for time it isn't a type of currency. Time is required to make transactions, and they may extend thought it, but it isn't currency. It would be the same as to call space a type of currency: sure you can exchange it if rights of property exist, but without it you can't make transactions
 

SchwarzKatze

Field Marshal
46 Badges
Nov 8, 2008
4.897
2.787
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings III
Since this is going to be a character heavy game with lots of offices to hold, I don't understand why they're not making actions dependent on the skills of people holding the relevant offices like CKII and instead opted for monarch-generated points that can somehow be saved over time.
 

Nicolas-frm

Major
27 Badges
Oct 24, 2015
593
629
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Rome Gold
CK2 can measure how efficient a ruler can be just fine without random mana points. Skills and traits in that game make sense and largely dictate what your character can do, unless you already have a massive realm for example your inbred imbecile with 2 martial probably won't be the next Alexander. Having an heir pop out at 0/0/0 and never being able to change doesn't make sense and you have little to no control over it. It's worse in every way imaginable.
CK2 is a character-based game. It isn't fit for Imperator Rome. Some actions require a part of your rulers potential (quantified as mana). With traits it probably isn't possible to achieve that (imagine if culture conversion just came down to whether your ruler had such trait or not it wouldn't make sense). Also traits have a lot of luck/randomness in them too just like mana. And again luck was a major factor historically. As a ruler for example you're not always guaranteed a competent heir. Many heirs were incompetent and undermined the stability and the power of the realm when they ascended to the throne. That destiny factor that even rulers could do nothing against is represented by the aspect of randomness in PDX games.
 

FrancescoT

Field Marshal
Demi Moderator
47 Badges
Aug 8, 2009
7.737
433
41
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • PDXCON 2018 "The Baron"
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • PDXCon 2019 "Baron"
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
As for time it isn't a type of currency.
Recruiting an INF regiment costs X ducats and Y daily tick (time)

Time is required to make transactions
Developing a province costs X admin and 0 daily tick (no time, instant but still a transaction)

Is true that mana is a currency as well as money, in game terms, but that they both belong to the same category doesn't really mean anything, as they are both different concepts
Please elaborate, if I use X to get Y where X in (A, B, C, D) how can A be a different concept that B? It's a different representation of the same thing.
 

DreadGrunt

Captain
37 Badges
Nov 1, 2009
463
100
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
CK2 is a character-based game. It isn't fit for Imperator Rome. Some actions require a part of your rulers potential (quantified as mana). With traits it probably isn't possible to achieve the that. Also traits have a lot of luck/randomness in them too just like mana. And again luck was a major factor historically. As a ruler for example you're not always guaranteed a competent heir. Many heirs were incompetent and undermined the stability and the power of the realm when they ascended to the throne. That destiny factor that even rulers could do nothing against is represented by the aspect of randomness in PDX games.
I:R isn't totally a state based game, characters are present. They could very much have at least some CK2 type stuff present to avoid the constant mana nonsense. There's also a difference between not being guaranteed a competent heir and your heir not changing at all from the moment they're born to when they're a 30 year old adult. If you get a 0/0/0 heir in EU4 you're just boned, if you get a bad heir in CK2 you can try to at least get them a good education to try and salvage things. Randomness is fine but not in massive amounts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.