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ASAD

First Lieutenant
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Apr 19, 2002
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I am plaing as England it is 1462.Burgundy is my vassal,we are in the same pact,land border exist,our relation is 200,they are my vassal since almost 20 years.But when I try to annex them they say no.What I have to do?
Shall I invest in my infra or wait till my monarch have better diplomacy then their's.
 

labalag

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Wait till your Monarch has a better dip-rating... otherwise it won't work
If you're lucky you'll get an excellent minister-event to boost your dip-rating
 

unmerged(9146)

Dux Slaviensis
May 3, 2002
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crash63 said:
Try to have a lot of troops at the border.
It has no influence on the chance of diploannexation (or if it has - it is neglible and undetectable by statistical testing).

Burgundy is quite a large country. They have many rich provinces. And they have a Center of Trade. I'd say your chances to diploannex them are rather low. And by 1470 you will get all their land in modern-day France anyway by the scripted event - why not just wait until then?
 
Feb 12, 2004
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robin74 said:
And by 1470 you will get all their land in modern-day France anyway by the scripted event - why not just wait until then?
Huh ? :confused:
He said he was playing England, not France. After 1476, he'll face the risk of seeing Burgundy annexed by Austria (or France).

Check my sig. Position of troops has no proved effects, but pushing maintenance at maximum has. As does a bigger (much bigger) income, a better monarch's DIP-skill, more troops, and 30 years of vassalization.
 

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lawkeeper said:
Huh ? :confused:
He said he was playing England, not France. After 1476, he'll face the risk of seeing Burgundy annexed by Austria (or France).
Oops. Sorry. :eek:o Yes, you're right of course, I thought ASAD was playing France.
 

unmerged(34070)

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Sep 8, 2004
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lawkeeper said:
Huh ? :confused:
He said he was playing England, not France. After 1476, he'll face the risk of seeing Burgundy annexed by Austria (or France).

Check my sig. Position of troops has no proved effects, but pushing maintenance at maximum has. As does a bigger (much bigger) income, a better monarch's DIP-skill, more troops, and 30 years of vassalization.

Didn`t England also get a chance for inheritance in 1.08, or do I remember wrong???
 

unmerged(34070)

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crash63 said:
It's very important to have an excellent king to diploannex.
Try to have a lot of troops at the border. Diploannexation is harder since 1.08.

You can also cheat by F12ing the excellent minister code... :D
 

crash63

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robin74 said:
It has no influence on the chance of diploannexation (or if it has - it is neglible and undetectable by statistical testing).


I'm not agree at all. If you have 200 000 (for example) soldiers at the border, AI accepts more often diploannexion. I have seen it very often.

It's true, in this case the problem must be the wealth.
 

DSYoungEsq

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crash63 said:
I'm not agree at all. If you have 200 000 (for example) soldiers at the border, AI accepts more often diploannexion. I have seen it very often.
It helps when making an assertion like this if you can either make reference to specific information from the game itself (such as the coding, the ReadMe file, or something of the sort) or to play-testing that can isolate the influence of the issue. Otherwise, without some controls, you don't know if the troops had anything to do with it or not.

As an example, I, before reading and testing, always assumed that leaving troops in a province helped with colonization. I thought this because it seemed to me that a positive result occurred more often if troops were still in the province as the colonist arrived. I know I am not alone in having made this assumption; others at times post here making that claim. But, of course, troops in and of themselves have no effect, and the determination as to whether or not your colonization attempt will be successful is made the moment you click on the button. You just don't get to see the result until the settler arrives.

To know if your "troops on the border" theory really is true, you must do one of three things:

1. Get Johan (or someone who worked on that piece of coding) to admit or deny the claim;

2. Find text in the ReadMe file establishing that it was added as a modification (although the ReadMe is, at times, unreliable because it often is too terse to really understand exactly what is done); or

3. Test a situation by manipulating the Save file for a game, adding or removing massed troops on the border. Over the course of several (meaning something like 50+ each possible set-up) tries, you can develop some statistical evidence in support of or in contradiction of your hypothesis. :)
 

unmerged(9146)

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crash63 said:
If you have 200 000 (for example) soldiers at the border, AI accepts more often diploannexion.
No it won't. It will accept with the same probability whether you have troops on the border or not.

I have seen it very often.
If you have done some testing on this, I'd like to know how big your samples were and what results you actually got.
 
Feb 12, 2004
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Miztivoi said:
Didn`t England also get a chance for inheritance in 1.08, or do I remember wrong???
No. The three choices are A) Austria (17/19 times), B) France (1/19 times) or C) independence (1/19 times).

Maybe AGCEEP has implemented this possibility, in the case England wins the HYW, but I don't know for sure.
 

unmerged(34070)

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lawkeeper said:
No. The three choices are A) Austria (17/19 times), B) France (1/19 times) or C) independence (1/19 times).

Maybe AGCEEP has implemented this possibility, in the case England wins the HYW, but I don't know for sure.

It wouldn`t be to far out for England to have a chance on Burgundy (although a very small one). They had quite close connections to England a while.
 
Feb 12, 2004
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Miztivoi said:
It wouldn`t be to far out for England to have a chance on Burgundy (although a very small one). They had quite close connections to England a while.
They rather had hard times at the end of the HYW. Their "alliance" was short-lived, and flemish merchants had a kind of heavy competition with english traders.

And the question of the inheritance is tied to royal ties and marriages. At that time, England was deep in the War of the Roses... ;)
 

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lawkeeper said:
They rather had hard times at the end of the HYW. Their "alliance" was short-lived, and flemish merchants had a kind of heavy competition with english traders.

And the question of the inheritance is tied to royal ties and marriages. At that time, England was deep in the War of the Roses... ;)

Perhaps. But I don`t think it would be beneath the burgundians to transfer it to an English prince just to spite France. I think (correct me if I`m wrong) that the English had some sort of claim (like most of Europe).
 
Feb 12, 2004
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Miztivoi said:
Perhaps. But I don`t think it would be beneath the burgundians to transfer it to an English prince just to spite France. I think (correct me if I`m wrong) that the English had some sort of claim (like most of Europe).
None that I know off. Actually, the Burgundians had few to decide : at Charles the Fearless's death, the french King took the Duchy itself, as well as all lands devoluted from the french Crown, but was not fast enough to go after the rest. And with the marriage of Charles's daughter with Maximilian, the Habsburg got the rest (County of Burgundy, Duchies of Brabant, Holland, Luxembourg, etc).
 

ProfCC

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as usual, lawkeeper is mostly right. Burgundy must be seen in their very strong familial loyalty to THEIR land. Don't get sucked into the false belief that everyone just assumed France was a real country and needed to exist. That is partially what is happening during the 100 Years War. Obviously the game is hard-wired this way to account for real history, but it also provides a very clear picture of Europe around the 1400s in that places like Burgundy and Britanny were very much their own nation-state and had no desire to give their land away to anyone, let alone someone from another place (i.e., England) that didn't even speak their language.

"Charles the Fearless?" I'm sure you mean Charles the Rash (though some more polite people give him the same handle has his Great-grandfather, Philip the Bold). His grandfather was John the Fearless. It was Charles' rash actions that Louis XI, the Spider King, took advantage of. Yet it was also Charles' dream to complete what his forefathers were attempting to do, which was carve out a state out of old Lothar, son of Charlemagne, old land. The same land that wars were fought on from the 1300s till 1945.

Burgundy just giving up its life and land to England because? Not hardly.
 
Feb 12, 2004
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carlec said:
"Charles the Fearless?" I'm sure you mean Charles the Rash (though some more polite people give him the same handle has his Great-grandfather, Philip the Bold). His grandfather was John the Fearless.
Yes, indeed, I messed the translation of the adjectives.

I'm reading a book on Burgundy, by Bertrand Schnerb (you maybe know of it, tough I don't think it has been translated, it's been written 5 years ago), and he's among the ones prefering to call Charles "the Bold" rather than "the Rash", mostly because all adjectives given to monarchs (or near-monarchs, like the Dukedom) are "good" adjectives (Bold, Just, Fearless, August, the Sage, etc), not "bad" (like Rash). Calling him "Rash" is sort of judging his actions before-hand, and it's not really kind to him (other monarchs have made far greater blunders). I find it a valid POV, and have adopted it.*

* by the way, it's a belgian historian, J.-M. Cauchies, who's been the first to drop Rash and adopt Bold. :D
 
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