I´ve married the Pope!

[Alextrasia]

Okay i am a bit confused...
i played as a byzan duchy and was able to reunite the kingdom of Jerusalem. (By the way creating this kingdom gives you 5000 Prestige and 2000 Piety)
I was playing as a queen because my Heir son was killed and so i just right know married Pope Urban III. He went to my court and i even was able to confess him to change his religion to Orthodox.
I rly think it should not be possible for anyone to marry the pope because irs just stupid knowing that this guy in your court who is orthodox was the pope.

 

[Hidden Legend]

LOL, that is a big game mechanic that you can do this for anyone. I think you should leave this in. It would be a great scandel. Pretend Pope Urban III is Alexander Borgia and then it is believable. Role play it as a big scandel. Unlikely as this is to happen you cant stop Bishops from lapsing and getting married that happened in the middle ages. Hell there was even one Pope who was a woman now we cant put that in the game can we?

 

[alh_p]

I dunno, the popes then were not exactly like the popes now. I agree that it shouldn't be easy but under certain circumstances (and pre reformation), why not? Crazy enough stuff happened.

Edit: When was it that the catholic church decreed that priests should be celibate? It was still acceptable in the late dark ages IIRC.

And who wouldn't be swayed by +1000 prestige!

 

[Tengri]

At one point I looked up (playing as Matilda) and I had the Pope's wife in my prison! Heh!

But he really ought to be thanking me. I noticed that all of my bishops were paying me their tithes instead of the Pope. and I mean ALL of them. In fact the majority had negative opinions of the Pope. Regarding the wife, apparently he had been a character in my court at one point and she had repeatedly plotted to kill him so i tossed her in jail.
Guess he wasn't exactly a charmer. Would have been a great time to set up an anti-Pope.

Has anyone successfully set up an anti-Pope yet?

 

[Tengri]

Edit: When was it that the catholic church decreed that priests should be celibate? It was still acceptable in the late dark ages IIRC.

As I understand it, it had been unacceptable since like the 4th or 5th century. But the history of it is a bit unclear to me.
But this was one of the oddball things that occurred in CK1 as well. We just need to accept it I guess.

Would prefer a religious model in which catholic bishops etcetera don't have wives, but it's not a deal breaker for me.

 

[unmerged(179107)]

Hell there was even one Pope who was a woman now we cant put that in the game can we?

That's an unproven urban myth, worth as much as the average UFO story.

 

[unmerged(12555)]

The further away you were from Rome, the more likely it was that priests would marry. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't until 1100's that priests were formally denied the possibility to marry in Sweden.

 

[RJL18]

I would love for you to be able to send women with the trait "Fair" into other kings courts so they can cause mischief and maybe upset their kingdom by messing up the kings marriage with his wife! Could be a good way of breaking an annoying alliance too!

 

[unmerged(121326)]

Edit: When was it that the catholic church decreed that priests should be celibate? It was still acceptable in the late dark ages IIRC.

Clerical celibacy was de-facto from 12th century on after its explicit enforcement in the First Lateran Council in the 1120s (previously it had been a clusterf*** of local laws, and official laws that were largely ignored in practice).

In plain English, in the CKII timeline from 1066 to 1123, married priests (even a Pope with a concubine or wife) would not have been entirely impossible. Maybe someone could mod a "clerical celibacy" law similar to the "free/papal investiture laws". Hey...maybe *I* should. I'll look into it. It should work the same way: before 1123 clerical celibacy was decided on a local basis rather than by the Pope, much like investiture.

 

[HolisticGod]

Concubinage was common among the popes (and bishops). Marriage was not.

Not a single Pope married while in office. Very, very few had been married prior to taking holy orders, but all of these, as I recall, either left their wives or were widowers.

I assume it's a bug and it should be fixed.

 

[AlecTrevylan006]

I want to see what happens to your relations with the Pope if you cuccold him.

 

[unmerged(79540)]

Just throw him in the Oubliette and see what happens...

 

[James The 1st]

Concubinage was common among the popes (and bishops). Marriage was not.

Not a single Pope married while in office. Very, very few had been married prior to taking holy orders, but all of these, as I recall, either left their wives or were widowers.

I assume it's a bug and it should be fixed.

Concubinage was not common, some bishops might have had one, and even 1-2 popes might have had one, but it was not close to being common at all.

Clerical celibacy was de-facto from 12th century on after its explicit enforcement in the First Lateran Council in the 1120s (previously it had been a clusterf*** of local laws, and official laws that were largely ignored in practice).

In plain English, in the CKII timeline from 1066 to 1123, married priests (even a Pope with a concubine or wife) would not have been entirely impossible. Maybe someone could mod a "clerical celibacy" law similar to the "free/papal investiture laws". Hey...maybe *I* should. I'll look into it. It should work the same way: before 1123 clerical celibacy was decided on a local basis rather than by the Pope, much like investiture.

This decision extended celibacy to all priests, most bishops were already supposed to be celibate.

 

[Me_]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexually_active_popes

Apparently there were some married popes. Note however that those from the game's timeframe have been widowers (became priests after their respective wives' deaths).

 

[HolisticGod]

James,

It is, of course, a matter of dispute.

I don't feel it necessary to debate the issue with a believer, particularly not one quoting the inimitable G.K. Chesterton. Do you feel it necessary to debate it with me?

Suffice it to say, I imagine we're on the same side insofar as the Pope marrying the Roman Empress, moving to Constantinople and converting to the Orthodox Church is probably a bug and should be fixed.

 

[Hidden Legend]

Nah dont fix it. He can be decried as being a fraud and the anti christ and excommunicated with the whole of the West decrying to pay for the sin for allowing such a man to be Pope, a man more crooked then Rodrigo Borgia but only just.

 

[Ivashanko]

LOL, that is a big game mechanic that you can do this for anyone. I think you should leave this in. It would be a great scandel. Pretend Pope Urban III is Alexander Borgia and then it is believable. Role play it as a big scandel. Unlikely as this is to happen you cant stop Bishops from lapsing and getting married that happened in the middle ages. Hell there was even one Pope who was a woman now we cant put that in the game can we?

There was no female Pope. That is a myth.

 

[yourworstnightm]

I thought they fixed this. I remember this being an issue on one of Pdoxlp's streams from an early preview version (he married his sister to the Pope, and broke the Papacy, since the Pope's daughters all became pretenders). But this was confirmed being a bug.

 

[HolisticGod]

Hidden Legend,

In this particular example, the Empress never would have "married the Pope." The Pope himself would have been deposed instantly.

In general, though, allowing the Pope character to marry would be fine if Cardinals immediately met to elect a replacement.

 

[Hidden Legend]

Hidden Legend,

In this particular example, the Empress never would have "married the Pope." The Pope himself would have been deposed instantly.

In general, though, allowing the Pope character to marry would be fine if Cardinals immediately met to elect a replacement.

That is fine fix that and give the deposed pope a few negative traits for it. Also make the Catholic world come under a cloud of doubt for its faith for a couple of years. Even fix the children of the Pope thinking they have claims to the papacy. But do leave the Pope being capable of marrying or having mistresses in. There is more fun to this.