I tried three games recently: warlike, espionage-focused and economy-focused

[Liggi]

I found myself with lots to do in the warlike and espionage-focused games (although, to be fair, I have a mod that adds some more Operations).

However, in the economy-focused game, I found myself with little to do. The early game was fun, and then there was a small part of the mid-game that was enjoyable as I was trying to manipulate my neighbours a little bit and establish a Trade League. But once all that was done... I was just kinda sitting there waiting for techs and building things.

It's immensely clear to me that it's the remaining gap in the game.

Here's a few of my observations:

- I ended up with max Influence, pretty much constantly. I didn't really have anything to spend it on other than changing Edicts occasionally. I could have used it to build Habitats but I didn't want 100 different Habitats to have to micromanage, and my economy was already booming.

- My population ended up with a real mix of different ethics, but I didn't really feel any obvious effects from that. The Factions screen had a lot of little green bubbles and a lot of different red bubbles for the issues but ultimately it didn't really matter, I could just ignore it for the most part. It was kinda interesting looking at a planet and seeing different ethics, but it didn't have any tangible effect on anything.

- I was playing as a MegaCorp, but it just feels... empty? The Government system in general feels empty. You have an Authority, you have some Civics that provide some modifiers... but that's it. There's no real distinction between when I was playing an Authoritarian warmonger than when I was playing the MegaCorp, other than what I was choosing to spend my time doing.

- Please, for the love of god, we need a Branch Office Expansion Planner.

My two main takeaways, I want to FEEL my empire more. I want it to feel different to have a cohesive population with aligned ethics vs. a mix of all different ethics. I want a democracy to feel different to a dictatorship and a dictatorship to feel different to a MegaCorp.

 

[JoshuaBarbieri]

- Please, for the love of god, we need a Branch Office Expansion Planner.

Brilliant

 

[Liggi]

Stellaris is currently a fantastic generator of inter-empire stories.

It should also become a fantastic generator of INTRA-empire stories.

That's as simple as I can put my thoughts on what's missing.

 

[Quinzal]

After playing a few Auth/Mate/Paci games, I feel. Once I'm done expanding and I fortify my borders, I'm just sitting on a nigh-on infinite amount of influence.

I agree that there needs to be more internal storytelling, but we could also use some more in the way of internal development. Citadels and Ecumenopoli are nice, but you don't get any actually cool, shiny stuff until you unlock Mega Engineering 20 years before the War in Heaven.

I proposed some mid-game minimegastructures a while back, but nobody seemed to like the idea, so... I guess I'll become the Imperium for the 30th game in a row?

 

[Red Death]

As a pacifist, your influence should go mainly toward habitats and megatructures, that's what they're for, since you're not using it for claims. By the way, planet automation really isn't that bad in the current version, even if it's not optimal.

Totally agree on the planner for Branch offices. At the very least I would like a way to select other's planets from the galaxy map.

 

[Ryika]

Not a perfect solution, but you can use Tab to loop through all planets that another Civilization owns (or control-tab for the backwards direction) to make Branch Office Business a lot easier.

 

[Liggi]

As a pacifist, your influence should go mainly toward habitats and megatructures, that's what they're for, since you're not using it for claims. By the way, planet automation really isn't that bad in the current version, even if it's not optimal.

Totally agree on the planner for Branch offices. At the very least I would like a way to select other's planets from the galaxy map.

It's true, but when you're already swimming in resources, building more habitats feels totally pointless. And it's a while before you unlock the ability to build any Megastructures.

 

[mial42]

Definitely agree on the lack of use for influence midgame in non-warmonger/habitat spam games (although warmongering and habitat spam are optimal). I find Galactic Community Expanded helps a lot with that; more things you can do with the GC and quicker resolutions makes it a solid influence sink.

 

[JoshuaBarbieri]

Stellaris is currently a fantastic generator of inter-empire stories.

It should also become a fantastic generator of INTRA-empire stories.

That's as simple as I can put my thoughts on what's missing.

So, so true

 

[Liggi]

Definitely agree on the lack of use for influence midgame in non-warmonger/habitat spam games (although warmongering and habitat spam are optimal). I find Galactic Community Expanded helps a lot with that; more things you can do with the GC and quicker resolutions makes it a solid influence sink.

Very true, and I do use this. But even then, this can be fairly dull.

Find a resolution to propose, look at who isn't supporting it, offer trade deal for favours, use influence to boost diplo weight.... wait.... wait, ok it went through, some modifiers are applied, now move onto the next thing. It's just not particularly interesting, engaging or rewarding.

 

[evilcat]

I recently played Fanatic Purrifiers and was also swimming in influence. Was even willing to build some habbitats, but i need that alloys for greater good.
There is a problem of too much influence in some gamestyles, and there is not enought valuable sinks of influence. Valuable means is valid option (other than war and habitats) not you gimping yourself more by using it.

In theory you can support your faction and that could give more happiness around your pops and as result more stability, but i am not even sure this is possible and how it works. Also i tried to support the faction in the past and it wasnt exacly changing much, but that might change in some patch.
Actually this is mildly annoying, even if i imagine that my peaceful empire will drift towards authocracy it is almost impossible to do full shift.

You can propose resolution in Galactic Senate, however there could be a limited amount of civics and ascension perks to support federation/senat gameplay. And it is even harder with small chill corporation. it is easier with bloodthirsty warmongrel, you grow bigger, and others are cut into pieces.

In theory there is Master of Nature ascension perk, but it does not gives that much extra disctrict and it dont even cost that much influence, as such it is no good sink. Maybe if Master of Nature was +4 district for 250i that would be good sink and decent alternative to habitats.

Suggestion:
Maybe we need mega influence sinks edict. Like spend 1000i for 10years of everything. Stability, happiness, growth. Just pure influence sink so players dont feel stupid.

10 y edict to enhance your admin cap by 20%, you can smash it multiple times, So if you are floating influence can cut on byerocracy.

 

[Ryika]

Suggestion:
Maybe we need mega influence sinks edict. Like spend 1000i for 10years of everything. Stability, happiness, growth. Just pure influence sink so players dont feel stupid.

10 y edict to enhance your admin cap by 20%, you can smash it multiple times, So if you are floating influence can cut on byerocracy.

That's literally how edicts used to work though, before they were made permanent so you didn't have to activate them again and again.
Why now go full circle and add temporary "super edicts" to click again?

Maybe going over edict cap should just have an Influence maintenance instead of the current admin cap cost. That way, the strategies that have no real use for Influence can just run additional edicts to passively drain the resource. Would also make going over cap less viable though.

 

[evilcat]

That's literally how edicts used to work though, before they were made permanent so you didn't have to activate them again and again.
Why now go full circle and add temporary "super edicts" to click again?

Maybe going over edict cap should just have an Influence maintenance instead of the current admin cap cost. That way, the strategies that have no real use for Influence can just run additional edicts to passively drain the resource. Would also make going over cap less viable though.

Becouse clicking energy overload every 10y isnt exiting? I am ok with buing edict one time, and dont switch it off for the rest of the game, less micro, also fits warlike gamestyle.

My idea is: Introcude superedict for 1000i so if you reach influence cap, you can dump it and get something. There need to be only 1 such edict, but it need to be generally good. Most empires would not use it, but if your empire swims in influence there will be an option.

 

[Ryika]

Becouse clicking energy overload every 10y isnt exiting? I am ok with buing edict one time, and dont switch it off for the rest of the game, less micro, also fits warlike gamestyle.

My idea is: Introcude superedict for 1000i so if you reach influence cap, you can dump it and get something. There need to be only 1 such edict, but it need to be generally good. Most empires would not use it, but if your empire swims in influence there will be an option.

And how's that more exiting? You're just making the numbers bigger.

 

[Liggi]

Yeah, all this talk of Influence sinks for me is somewhat missing the point. I could sink all my Influence into Habitats, but it's not fun. Another edict wouldn't be fun.

The point is, there's an internal component missing for empires and Influence is a perfect resource for it to rely on. Solve the midgame slump, solve the non-warfare / non-espionage gameplay issues, and solve the Influence surplus you end up with.

 

[Minuro]

I think the influence's problem is a fact. I have the maximum influence almost always too, except when some very specific event happens (such as when I want to influence the galactic community or when I nominate my capital for the galactic market).

 

[methegrate]

I found myself with lots to do in the warlike and espionage-focused games (although, to be fair, I have a mod that adds some more Operations).

However, in the economy-focused game, I found myself with little to do. The early game was fun, and then there was a small part of the mid-game that was enjoyable as I was trying to manipulate my neighbours a little bit and establish a Trade League. But once all that was done... I was just kinda sitting there waiting for techs and building things.

It's immensely clear to me that it's the remaining gap in the game.

Here's a few of my observations:

- I ended up with max Influence, pretty much constantly. I didn't really have anything to spend it on other than changing Edicts occasionally. I could have used it to build Habitats but I didn't want 100 different Habitats to have to micromanage, and my economy was already booming.

- My population ended up with a real mix of different ethics, but I didn't really feel any obvious effects from that. The Factions screen had a lot of little green bubbles and a lot of different red bubbles for the issues but ultimately it didn't really matter, I could just ignore it for the most part. It was kinda interesting looking at a planet and seeing different ethics, but it didn't have any tangible effect on anything.

- I was playing as a MegaCorp, but it just feels... empty? The Government system in general feels empty. You have an Authority, you have some Civics that provide some modifiers... but that's it. There's no real distinction between when I was playing an Authoritarian warmonger than when I was playing the MegaCorp, other than what I was choosing to spend my time doing.

- Please, for the love of god, we need a Branch Office Expansion Planner.

My two main takeaways, I want to FEEL my empire more. I want it to feel different to have a cohesive population with aligned ethics vs. a mix of all different ethics. I want a democracy to feel different to a dictatorship and a dictatorship to feel different to a MegaCorp.

I'm fond of saying that Stellaris is a war game that doesn't realize it, and this is exactly why. There are lots of cinematic descriptions of what happens in Stellaris but once the early game ends you spend your time fighting other empires. When you aren't fighting other empires, you're waiting to do so.

And I think the reason for this in very large part is because at all points in the game the main thing that you do as a player is move ships around the galaxy map.

In the early game, you move science and construction ships around the galaxy. They get places and explore/study/build/etc. Then the early game ends and those science/construction ships mostly phase out. Then you move military ships around the galaxy map. Those get places and fight enemies, meaning that what you do during this phase of the game is fight enemies.

Everything else is a one-time interaction. I build a starbase, and then rarely (if ever) touch it again. I put up a building, then don't return to that planet until it needs another building. I install a leader, who I forget about until that leader dies. Even diplomacy is pretty much set in stone, with few points of interaction and little to negotiate over. So once you have your buildings/starbases/pacts in place, that part of the game is largely over except for occasionally updating things.

I really like the idea of Stellaris being the grand story generator that it aspires to be, but at the end of the day a game is defined by two things: what you do and how you win. In Stellaris, what you do is move fleets around the map. You informally win by defeating the crisis in a war, and despite the updated victory conditions you almost always formally win by conquering the galaxy.

Idk... I'd be very on board for a version of the game which shook that up, but I feel like it would need a fundamental redesign of how Stellaris works. Adding more content won't fix the problem. Unless they want to do that, I'd suggest that the right design is to just lean into what they have. It's a war game, so just make it the best war game it can be.

 

[Ryika]

Yeah, all this talk of Influence sinks for me is somewhat missing the point. I could sink all my Influence into Habitats, but it's not fun. Another edict wouldn't be fun.

The point is, there's an internal component missing for empires and Influence is a perfect resource for it to rely on. Solve the midgame slump, solve the non-warfare / non-espionage gameplay issues, and solve the Influence surplus you end up with.

What would you suggest?

 

[Liggi]

What would you suggest?

Good question, I'm not entirely sure.

Some vague thoughts:

- In the past, Moregard has talked about defining "institutions" within your empire and their level of funding. To me, that doesn't sound super interesting because it's likely to just be a resource sink that applies some modifiers. Maybe there's something there though.

- Leaders are very shallow, and could use a rework. There's a limited number of traits, Envoys aren't full leaders, the whole Leader Pool mechanic isn't very interesting, moving Leaders around requires boring micromanagement. I also really hate that the Ruler pool just draws exclusively from Admirals, Scientists, Governors etc.

- I'd like to see planets become more than just resource-generators. The way you build a world, and the characteristics / features of the world itself and where it is in relation to other empires / other planets in your empire should have an impact. If I build a Research World full of Labs and a Research Institute, that world should FEEL different than a Commercial world, or some other type of world. This is important because it would add another layer of consideration when you are building your empire over and above "what resources do I need?", and it'd give you something to try to achieve / work towards rather than just a huge fleet and loads of resources.

- Ethics / Factions need a rework and need to be more interesting / impactful. Again, this ties into the stories that play out. A world on the border with a Devouring Swarm that gets invaded during a war becomes more Militarist, and that Militarism ties into the Faction system in some way, which affects the political landscape of your empire. These are the sorts of stories I want to see playing out.

- In terms of how Influence would tie into all of this, I'm not sure. I'm thinking there would be planet-level (or maybe sector-level?) edicts of various kinds that you can use to influence internal politics? This is the part I've thought about the least.