I thought that I understand it...

[Wenla]

... but seems that I haven't.

HttT 4.1b, first game, prestige behaviour:

Case: big Bohemia (me) small Mazovia (one province country, no allies).
- Me Fabricate Claim => DOW => conquer => annex.
Infame goes up 8 points, just like I knew, but I excepted Prestige to go UP a little, but it went down a lot.

What I haven't understood?

Adv. thanks

 

[jpr123]

Are you the emperor? Whenever the emperor annexes a country in the HRE they take a prestige hit (-10 I think)

 

[Gheis]

You didn't force personal union.

 

[Wenla]

You didn't force personal union.

No, I didn't. So, if I understand this right (now), every time when you do an exception from CB at peace negotiation, you lose prestige? Is it allways so?

 

[Johan]

No, I didn't. So, if I understand this right (now), every time when you do an exception from CB at peace negotiation, you lose prestige? Is it allways so?

yes.

 

[Tjuk]

Really? I haven't seen prestige going down when asking for money, revocation of claims, releasing of nations or the breaking of treaties when such wasn't mentioned in the casus belli. Perhaps this is an addition to the latest patch?

 

[Keinwyn]

I haven't noticed it either... and I just took a whole lot of land of Norway without the correct CB using the latest patch...

 

[unmerged(18387)]

I'm not completely sure on this, but I think the main point in connection with the "Fabric Claim" Casus Belli is that you go to war to support your monarchs claim to the throne of another country.

When you then end up annexing the given country instead, you actually fail to archieve the (official) main goal of the war, and in that context it actually makes sense that you should lose a lot of prestige.

Perhaps you would argue that when you're annexing the country that should count as succesfully claiming their throne as well, but that is perhaps to miss the point.

During that time there was a clear distinction between the claims of a country/state and the claims of the ruler. An example is the Danish monarchs claims to the Duchies of Schleswig, Holstein and Lauenburg in northern Germany. The Danish kings were regarded as legitimate rulers of these three Duchies but they were not regarded as a part of the State of Denmark.

At least the official reasons for Prussia and Austria to go to war with Denmark in 1848-51 and finally in 1864 was that the Danish government tried to incorporate the three Duchies into the newly democratic State of Denmark.

 

[Wenla]

I did last night some experiments with that issue (=loaded save) and it looks like it's not only the annexion when you lose prestige. Same start but now I tried to form PU as a piece term, but it didn't succeeded because war score was 100 and cost of the PU was 120... So, we didn't united. I stayed over there for 3-4 years and didn't got PU. Mazovia started to offer peace with little money for me, 7-8 prestige and no infamy. I accepted, and suprised again when I lost again 23 prestige points I didn't tried what happens if I offer White Peace, but I assume that I lose those prestige points anyhow if I can't get PU.

I finally had to annex Mazovia, no other reasonable way out.

So, a question again: How I know beforehand how much PU costs with peace negotiation? It can't be allways 120, because no one accept that cost for the peace.

 

[enkhuush]

It seems because of you can't force personal union you loses 30 prestige.

 

[Malurous]

So, a question again: How I know beforehand how much PU costs with peace negotiation? It can't be allways 120, because no one accept that cost for the peace.

As funny as it is, the Fabricate Claims version of this peace term does seem broken in the newest beta (which I guess you're playing if it costs 120). The base cost for PU used to be 40, while the Obscure Documents CB has 200 % cost - so a legitimate PU enforcement cost 40 and a shady one 80. Then they increased the base cost to 60 to make normal PU war more difficult, but the Obscure Documents modifier is still 200%. I doubt that this is how it's supposed to be and I can't think of an explanation that makes sense. I modded the modifier to 150 % -> 90 peace cost for that reason.

 

[Wenla]

As funny as it is, the Fabricate Claims version of this peace term does seem broken in the newest beta (which I guess you're playing if it costs 120). The base cost for PU used to be 40, while the Obscure Documents CB has 200 % cost - so a legitimate PU enforcement cost 40 and a shady one 80. Then they increased the base cost to 60 to make normal PU war more difficult, but the Obscure Documents modifier is still 200%. I doubt that this is how it's supposed to be and I can't think of an explanation that makes sense. I modded the modifier to 150 % -> 90 peace cost for that reason.

OK then, that's why there is beta patch and Paradox can fix bugs players find out.

 

[Vladislav]

Before HTTT, if you were thrust into a succession war and failed to win a PU with the country in question, you lost prestige.

 

[Chief Savage Ma]

Makes sense that if you went to war to reconquer a lost province and failed to capture it, that you would look kinda dumb.