I thought Medium Crown Authority stopped vassals from waging war against each other

[OrdepNM]

I think by the time your kingdom has absolute crown authority, we should be basically in EU era control of state, so the only way vassals can wage war is by revolting against the top liege. The law description even says that the nobility is under the thumb of the absolute ruler or something, so it makes no sense that your vassals are still creating a ruckus in your own house over some de jure duchy that's got nothing to you, so yeah this really bothers me. Absolute Crown Authority should be hard to establish and mantain, but it should have better benefits.

 

[BritNavFan]

When exactly is "nothing happens at all" better for the game?

Stuff happens. Sure, it'd be pretty boring playing as an underling in a large state with decent crown authority. So? Last time I checked, this game was called Crusader Kings, not Crusader Hedge Knights Who Stage a Series of Rebellions Against Increasingly Powerful Lords While More Powerful Overlords Completely Ignore the Situation Until It's Their Turn. The game would be fun to play as the overall ruler if it wasn't for the stupid magical baronial wars. As it is, the magical baronial wars just make it unfun to play as overall ruler without making it fun to play at lower levels. If I wanted to play something as purely fantasy as a Count who rebels against his Duke without consequences from the King or Emperor in one of the more centralized medieval states, I'd just play Warcraft.

 

[Divi]

I think by the time your kingdom has absolute crown authority, we should be basically in EU era control of state, so the only way vassals can wage war is by revolting against the top liege. The law description even says that the nobility is under the thumb of the absolute ruler or something, so it makes no sense that your vassals are still creating a ruckus in your own house over some de jure duchy that's got nothing to you, so yeah this really bothers me. Absolute Crown Authority should be hard to establish and mantain, but it should have better benefits.

The problem is the description makes it sound like something that's wholly ahistorical; this kind of monarchy didn't exist in the period outside of the Byzantine empire and to a much lesser extent the early caliphate in its core domains (it was very much feudal once you left Egypt and Arabia), and it had completely eroded away in byzantium by the 15th century.

 

[OrdepNM]

The problem is the description makes it sound like something that's wholly ahistorical; this kind of monarchy didn't exist in the period outside of the Byzantine empire and to a much lesser extent the early caliphate in its core domains (it was very much feudal once you left Egypt and Arabia), and it had completely eroded away in byzantium by the 15th century.

All true, but it did happen a few centuries down the line, and with good realm management and diplomacy, theres nothing physically barring a ruler from implementing it. If the game doesnt wanna go there I'm more than fine with it because, as you said, its ahistorical for the period, but then the name is unfortunate, as absolutism is a coined term for a very specific form of government.

 

[barny]

Absolutism shouldn't be a real term in the first place. Strictly speaking: The term is even wrong in the era that is called after him.

The crown laws are sadly more of a throw-away in my opinion. They could and should be fleshed out far more and the way it is now, it is far to easy to push it up and down as you desire and the only limit is the "once per king" rule.

Let alone the fact that having elective succession and absolute crown authority at the same time is simply a paradox (pun somewhat intended), as I said many times. It's a bit like a totalitarian dictatorship with free and open elections.

 

[BBBD316]

I understand that things shouldn't be in the game, but then WC probably shouldn't be possible either.

I think that once CA goes to medium, perhaps all those that want to use factions to get land should have to join the lower crown authority first, imagine how quick that would fill up. I think there needs to be real benefits/costs to choosing a certain CA, I just get to medium an leave it as moving up or down really has no bearing on most of my games.

 

[Divi]

I understand that things shouldn't be in the game, but then WC probably shouldn't be possible either.

I think that once CA goes to medium, perhaps all those that want to use factions to get land should have to join the lower crown authority first, imagine how quick that would fill up. I think there needs to be real benefits/costs to choosing a certain CA, I just get to medium an leave it as moving up or down really has no bearing on most of my games.

Having the lower crown authority factions filling up at medium and above would basically allow for the barons' revolts in England.

 

[BritNavFan]

The crown laws are sadly more of a throw-away in my opinion. They could and should be fleshed out far more and the way it is now, it is far to easy to push it up and down as you desire and the only limit is the "once per king" rule.

I understand that things shouldn't be in the game, but then WC probably shouldn't be possible either.

I think that once CA goes to medium, perhaps all those that want to use factions to get land should have to join the lower crown authority first, imagine how quick that would fill up. I think there needs to be real benefits/costs to choosing a certain CA, I just get to medium an leave it as moving up or down really has no bearing on most of my games.

These are all things that I totally agree with.

I'd also be OK with it if the current settings were the vanilla settings, but you could mod them and/or change them by difficulty setting.

 

[Maui]

Medium Crown Authority disables the ability to declare war via the declare war diplomancy button.

It does not remove the ability to join factions or use plots... And the outcome of some plots and factions may be a war.

 

[Jeltz]

Higher crown authority should not prevent all kings of wars. For example if a duke revokes a count's title then the count should be able to rebel, but in my opinion then (at higher crown authorities) the liege should be allowed to interfere in the conflict and side with either the duke or the count. A king should be able to stop one of his dukes from revoking the title of his brother.

So there really needs to be a system for the liege to interfere in the private wars of vassals.

 

[yezhanquan]

Higher crown authority should not prevent all kings of wars. For example if a duke revokes a count's title then the count should be able to rebel, but in my opinion then (at higher crown authorities) the liege should be allowed to interfere in the conflict and side with either the duke or the count. A king should be able to stop one of his dukes from revoking the title of his brother.

So there really needs to be a system for the liege to interfere in the private wars of vassals.

Basically to step in and say,"Look, guys, I know you all are fighting over (war goal). Tell you what: I want a piece of the action."

I would prefer that you can interfere based on who the liege character likes more in-game, and not the player's choice.

 

[Avidian]

As others have said, the idea of vassals being able to rebel is annoying but not the heart of the problem: the problem is a great king with high/absolute CA is basically powerless to stop his most petty underlings of underlings from creating chaos in his realm. "Powerless" isn't what we like to see when our empire is vast and we're doing an excellent job managing our direct vassals.

Honestly, there is nothing worse than seeing your hand-picked vassals get replaced by shitheads and knowing that you're only real recourse is to assassinate the shitheads before they win the war. Or, if like me your empire is largely full of same dynasty vassals, those "little wars" are never little. I've seen 150k stacks sitting on my vassals holdings. I don't even truly mind the in-fighting: it is being a powerful emperor/king with absolute authority that is powerless to stop petty lords from fighting over petty claims that annoys me. I should have more options than assassination.

I mean even if I didn't want to dirty my hands by actually picking a side, I should be able to influence that war half a dozen other ways. "My good friend and vassal Duke so and so - I'd 'hate' to see my dear cousin lose his duchy neighboring yours. Take this coin and help him squash that uppity count." Or, "Dear Cousin who is on the verge of losing his duchy: please see attached sum of money earmarked "BIG FUCKING MERCENARY FORCE." You should also be able to tell other vassals to stop helping so at the very least that small war doesn't erupt into half the vassals of my realm fighting it out to make Sir Shithead Duke of Worthlessland. Lastly, as another option, I should simply be able to join the war on either side at the risk to relations. It is the hard-coded way that we can do nothing but sit idle that is annoying. Nobody likes to be a powerless ruler.

 

[Scde2]

It's kinda ridiculous that as a king or emperor with the highest CA and your vassals are constantly at war with their own vassals. It wouldn't be so bad if the vassals couldn't call in their allies, which in turn lets vassals fight other vassals which makes the medium CA half effective. As a king or emperor with Absolute or even High CA you easily should have the power and options to put the end to vassal wars (Unless they are attacking you as their liege)

 

[Kenlin]

It seems like a good way to counter this would be having a tiered system so that medium crown authority would stop your vassals warring with each other, high would stop their vassals from warring with their liege and each other, and absolute would stop their vassals from warring with their liege and each other. Starting a war through an event or faction would incur a tiered hefty dislike from their lieges for disrespecting the king's peace.

 

[NewbieOne]

90% of them are:
1) count starts faction to replace duke. Count will have c100% of dukes numbers.
2) count sends duke ultimatum. Dukes says no.
3) therefore war, therefore allies can be called.

The faction system pretty much bypassing crown authority is WAD (unless Paradox patches it later) but infuriating.

About what I was going to say. Also, you can do nothing to force cease-fire and while at least 2 vassals (out of even 100) are at war, you can't change certain laws (succession mostly). Means that a double emperor can be stack with gavelkind for a count rebelling against a duke and neither of them being able to win it.

It's understandable that plots will still lead to wars but plots should be put in some defined relationship with crown authority. Crown authority shouldn't be transparent because... well... it shouldn't be. There's no reason for crown authority to be unable to affect plots at all. Reduced effect, sure, after all plots by definition lead to extraordinary events. But IMHO the liege needs some tools to deal with that.

Most of all, from a certain level up, I think lieges should be able to force cease fire at some cost (opinion or otherwise).

 

[Zireael]

Oh yeah, dragging out vassal wars preventing you from changing your laws are annoying.