I think we forgot something...
- Thread starter WolfsRainESP
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As I recall, for the release date Espionage is restricted to researching encryption/decryption. Seems like something that they'd add DLC for later though.
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If you can't find espionage, it means it's doing its job correctly. 
But seriously, wasn't something said of it in the 2nd to last WWW?
But seriously, wasn't something said of it in the 2nd to last WWW?
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Espionage will not be in the release version and you will not be able to find out about enemy battle planes as that feature was scraped.
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For the moment, espionage is simplified into two things :
- Encryption/decryption, which allow you to discover your opponent's number of factories, divisions, ships and planes (or hide yours), and give you more informations about opponent's units on the front (their number, the composition of the divisions, their strength and organization...).
- Resistance in the lands your enemy has conquered can give you (if it's quite strong) some informations about units which are posted here (so it can be useful if your are planning Overlord).
- Encryption/decryption, which allow you to discover your opponent's number of factories, divisions, ships and planes (or hide yours), and give you more informations about opponent's units on the front (their number, the composition of the divisions, their strength and organization...).
- Resistance in the lands your enemy has conquered can give you (if it's quite strong) some informations about units which are posted here (so it can be useful if your are planning Overlord).
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Plus the radio detection/radar techs also improves Intel from building radar stations.
The options to improve support for your ideology and plot a coup are now diplomatic. There's not alot missing from HOI3 that was useful, just you don't have to recruit spies from your leadership, and no micro sending spies on missions. A good thing IMO.
The options to improve support for your ideology and plot a coup are now diplomatic. There's not alot missing from HOI3 that was useful, just you don't have to recruit spies from your leadership, and no micro sending spies on missions. A good thing IMO.
Yes, it's not so far from HoI3, it's just that the missions are dispatched into other tabs.
However I hope that they'll quickly add the "discover battleplans" and "draw fake battleplan" they promise us.
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Pretty much this. There's also the recon ability for units, increasing their chances to select a good counter for enemy tactics.
Overall I like the way it's going to be ATM - the very abstracted system melds in easily and well with the more conventional military strategy. They'll probably work on the system in the future, but I'm glad they decided to keep it simple at first. A poor espionage system is worse than no espionage system at all IMO.
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Yes, agreed - far better something really good down the line than a 'that'll do' cobble for release. There's a big thread about the best time for the axis to start its attack, with opinions ranging from '36 to tomorrow morning, but nobody mentioned the key variable - intel on the state of your enemies. We can get some info from the diplomatic screen - for example we can see if SU is doing the purge - but we know nothing about the production plans of other countries; are they taking a gamble and building up industry, or forgoing long-term growth and churning out weapons hell-for-leather? Intel isn't an optional extra for a war game, but an absolute fundamental of it.
I always thought espionage was a chore in previous hoi games. I frequently ignored it. Its not really a fun part of the game.
If added later, I would hope it gets a "fun" stamp of approval first.
If added later, I would hope it gets a "fun" stamp of approval first.
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The only aspect of espionage I ever really used was the "support my party" in other countries option. Other then that, it was pretty much a wasted leadership point, so I am perfectly fine with the system being abstracted to just unit detection
Honestly tired of everyone saying all these functions will be dlc. It shall be free patch... please
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It's worth noting that most games have problems doing espionage in a fun and useful way (the Espionage idea group and system in EUIV has been overhauled at least a couple times, and is still seen as useless unless you just want to troll people in MP; it's being overhauled again in the coming DLC, and we'll see if that changes). I believe Stellaris is also going to launch without an espionage system.
Given the delays HOI4 has already experienced, I'm fine with them waiting until it can be done right. Whether that involves a DLC or not would depend on Paradox, but I can certainly see an argument that the amount of time and effort involved in making a functioning system should involve a DLC.
When they do add it, I hope we get some relevant national foci (e.g. the Double-Cross system in the UK, the OSS for the US, etc.).
Given the delays HOI4 has already experienced, I'm fine with them waiting until it can be done right. Whether that involves a DLC or not would depend on Paradox, but I can certainly see an argument that the amount of time and effort involved in making a functioning system should involve a DLC.
When they do add it, I hope we get some relevant national foci (e.g. the Double-Cross system in the UK, the OSS for the US, etc.).
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The secret DLC has been confirmed to be Horse Armor
Yes, 240mm armor so the polish horses can fight german Maus and E-100.
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I always found it funny to win elections in enemy countries with my spy army, sadly I almost never succeeded in the UK and US, those damn Englishmen. Seems they got a good defense even tho I have 1000+ spies at my disposal and have infiltrated all their allies... guess invading them will be the only option . I do miss a nice espionage system but atleast there no useless things like a coup function that has 0% of success... or covert ops points you never used. Comparing the old espionage system to HOI4 a lot of its features have become redundant, party support now in the diplomatic screen, lower neutrality/increase threat now all in world tension which you can't influence.
. I do miss a nice espionage system but atleast there no useless things like a coup function that has 0% of success... or covert ops points you never used. Comparing the old espionage system to HOI4 a lot of its features have become redundant, party support now in the diplomatic screen, lower neutrality/increase threat now all in world tension which you can't influence.
Neither. This is not something missed by mistake. It was clearly a design decision. You have Intel, you just don't have to mess around with sending spies.
Yes, you can see that as well. That was in the WWW with Daniel.
Really? I must have dozed off at that point in the stream.. ) but in that case the OP's original question stands; it's hardly a fully-fledged espionage system if everyone has an accurate picture of each other's state secrets without huge trouble and expense. You think the devs are perfectly content with what they have, I think more will come later in a dlc - we'll see.
As many people pointed out, most of the espionage things of HoI3 are in some other form in HoI4. I do hope they will add a more in depth system at a later stage but asking for a free patch is not alright, you are entitled to a functioning game with all developed features at time of purchase not for features you wish they had more fleshed out.
If they didn't make a system until release, they need to work after that, that work needs to be paid. I know its kinda frustrating at some times, but the continous development of their games has to be sustained somehow.
So we either accept their DLC policy as it is, buy new content as it gets developed or dont and just take the free stuff they include. If you can point to a viable alternative how they should sustain their buisness without Selling new content as DLC I would be interested to hear it.
Regards
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