I think I finally understand better on how air war works

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Apr 13, 2020
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Air war, like any other wars, is won by factories. Yes, you may have high quality and experienced pilots at the beginning, but if you keep losing them, you will eventually lose air superiority. Just ask the Japs and Germans.

If you look at the screen, there are two important things to take note: first, the skull which represent kill counts, and the number of fighters you have.

Initially, I committed 5000 planes, then the enemy AI responded by increasing their plane number to 6000 planes (a little more than mine to achieve air parity). That is why it is important to have a large reserve of planes and a strong industry committed to producing fighters only. We have been in this air war equilibrium (green, yellow, red and then back to green) until I started to capture large number of enemy industries. Finally, I was in the green for a long time (the enemy fighter planes finally dropped below mine). Hence, it is good to take note of this tactical aspect of air war (the number of fighter planes).

The second thing is the skull. The skull represents the attrition aspect of air war. If your planes are better (qualitatively and quantitatively), the enemy will get more skull losses than you. And this skull tally happens everyday, day and night, as the fighters compete for air superiority. Once the enemy keeps losing large number of pilots and planes (represented by the skulls) everyday, and you replace yours as easily, this is when you know the air war is in your hand. So if you are confident, keep pushing the enemy to its limit by forcing them to clock up high skull loses while you ramped up your industries rapidly. While you may have a rather high loss on your side, you will still win in the long run.

Note that I only learnt this through constant observations of how air war is fought and won. I have actually tried to play the Battle of Britain (more info below), by focusing SORELY on increasing air wing production. Even though I failed to achieve air superiority, I think I understand the air war a little better. It is won by factories alone in the long run, not necessarily just the skills and experience of the pilots.

Another interesting thing is that we may get annoyed by random pop-up event about our ace's death. I think this is important because it plays into the attrition aspect of the game. If you keep killing a lot of enemy aces while accumulating a large number of yours, your air force will end up much more experienced and skillful than the enemy (this is not tested yet, but it is something I assume based on historical hindsight).



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This is another good example.


Battle of Britain officially started when my planes first arrived in Southern England. Initially, there was no enemy planes, so I get to bomb their industries (first score!)


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Then Uk fighters arrived to stop me.

1590127680647.png


Balance of power started to shift in their favor as more of planes came to help UK. In this example below, Free France sent 262 planes.


1590127785772.png



Then I am in the red because of larger number of enemy air force. This is when I ramped up production of air planes only, to compete and keep dropping their planes. It is now the war of factories -- who can replace planes and men faster. Germany should have the advantage since it has a larger industry base. The Allies only has UK to count on, because all the other allies have collapsed and lost their European industries. The skull tally will show the number of planes lost.


1590127880791.png



Eventually, the air war is back to parity, because new situation develops. First, some Allied planes have probably flown off to other theaters (Italy declared war on Greece, and she joined the Allies). Second, like I explained previously, the other Allies have no industries to speak of, so once their planes are lost, there would be no replacement. This is why the air war is back to between German and UK planes. The 1646 planes you see in the screen belong to UK only. Of course, I can keep pushing on to win the air war but I decided to just annex UK (my troops just landed successfully on their beaches). Hope this helps! And let me know you think.


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Hopefully I get a chance to read about Battle of Britain. I remembered it was a subject of fascination when I was small. This was the first time a war was fought sorely by air. The British were like honorable knights trying to save their cities from the barbaric hordes of Luftwaffe. Now I know this is not true because Luffwaffe has its weaknesses, and was not the monstrous threat that we were once bought up to believe in. Their 2-engine bomber fleets were pathetic for strategic bombing, compared to the real 4-engine monsters that the US brought to Germany later.
 
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Simon_9732495

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If you look at the screen, there are two important things to take note: first, the skull which represent kill counts, and the number of fighters you have.

The red and the green number next to the skulls show how you "trade".
In the first picture you have a red 34 and a green 65. That means the enemy loses a lot more than you. (Almost 2:1)

If you open the statistics window (button in the upper right, next to close) you can see "our fighters lost" and "enemy fighters lost" and can watch the "trade" over days, month or years.

If the "trade" is hugely in your favor (e.g. 5:1) you should keep running the campain. If the trade is even you have to think if losing the planes is worth making the enmey lose the same amount. If your industry is a lot stronger it might be worth it.
As Germany in 1939 you might rather not trade against france and the UK and keep the fighters for later.
 
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The red and the green number next to the skulls show how you "trade".
In the first picture you have a red 34 and a green 65. That means the enemy loses a lot more than you. (Almost 2:1)

If you open the statistics window (button in the upper right, next to close) you can see "our fighters lost" and "enemy fighters lost" and can watch the "trade" over days, month or years.

If the "trade" is hugely in your favor (e.g. 5:1) you should keep running the campain. If the trade is even you have to think if losing the planes is worth making the enmey lose the same amount. If your industry is a lot stronger it might be worth it.
As Germany in 1939 you might rather not trade against france and the UK and keep the fighters for later.

Okay sorry my fault. I think my English interpretation is not good. When I said kill counts, I actually meant trade (in your own words). For example, green 65 means I shot down 65 enemy planes. But of course, planes are also lost to accidents.
 
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Okay, this is another example of how AI reacts to your air campaign. Initially, in Midwest, I had 16000 fighters while the AI put in 17000. We were having air parity, when suddenly I removed all my planes from the air zone (due to fuel crisis). The enemy AI immediately responds by removing theirs too, until they have a small force of 193 fighters to maintain air superiority.



1590130447861.png
 
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If the "trade" is hugely in your favor (e.g. 5:1) you should keep running the campain. If the trade is even you have to think if losing the planes is worth making the enmey lose the same amount. If your industry is a lot stronger it might be worth it.
As Germany in 1939 you might rather not trade against france and the UK and keep the fighters for later.

I also wanted to add that this method of "trade" is useful if you want to plan an important offensive with temporary air superiority. For example, if the enemy in the region has 146 fighters and you have none, you can caught the enemy "off guard" by launching 800 planes at the right time (your offensive's date). Of course, the enemy might reinforce with even more, but it might be a little too late when your offensive is already underway.

This happened in Kursk when both sides have parity in air power. They were constantly trading blows until one side backed down due to other strategic concerns (For germans, it was the arrival of American bombers).
 
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Simon_9732495

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And if you are a small nation you maybe shouldn't trade at all against a major. Just put air up for a small, schort advantage and take them down again. If you keep the air up the enemy might outproduce you until you have no planes at all.
 
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Air war over Kursk

Both Germans and Soviets fielded powerful ground-attack units (Germans in limited number though).


1590131838911.png


lyushin Il-2 Shturmovik (Soviet design): Heavily armored, know as flying tank

The circle of death was employed against German vehicles at Kursk. Very hard to knock down.


1590142582646.png


Junkers Ju 87 G-2 variant (German design): known for its anti-tank gun pods, Kanonenvogel ("cannon-bird")

A handful were used in Kursk. But it was famous under the use of German Stuka Ace, Rudel.

Hopefully, Paradox focuses more on the anti-tank aspects of airplanes. Very interesting.
 

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elektrizikekswerk

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You should remove that picture or change to another version. The depiction of swastikas is not allowed in this forum.

/edit: done :)
 
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the detection is the hardest thing to understand. Who writes the wiki better give example for every formulas.

Let's say both side have 2000 fighters. But side A only see 200 of side B, then side A will bring 3x200 = 600 fighter to the battle, while side B see 500 of side A, so side B bring 1500 to the battle.

So in the windows, it say 2000 vs 2000, but the reality is 600 vs 1500.

Another thing is "air superiority mission efficiency" that boost attack/defense of planes. Quick answer is research the first 5 tech Right branche of Strategic Destruction, if you want to win air war. But remember that you don't need to win air war to bomb enemy.
 
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Harin

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  1. Agility. Engine upgrades to increase agility stat is important for fighters. The Operational doctrine tree and getting to the agility buff is another place to get an advantage. The main point is to avoid the Agility Debuff which can get up to negative -67.5%.
      • stats multiplier: the difference in speed divided by 1500 km/h plus the difference in agility divided by 100. This modifier is capped between -100% and +100% and then multiplied by 30%. For example a 1936 fighter against a 1936 tactical bomber gets a
        {\displaystyle ((500-430)/1500+(50-20)/100)*0.3=10.4\%}
        bonus.
      • carrier factor: 0.1 for normal and 5 for carrier combat (if both the attacker and defender are carrier wings)
      • agility disadvantage: if the defender has more agility, a penalty of up to -67.5% is applied. The maximum penalty is reached at an agility ratio of 1:2.5.
    • {\displaystyle {\text{damage}}=0.01*{\text{number of attackers}}*{\text{air attack}}/{\text{air defense}}*(1+{\text{stats multiplier}})*{\text{carrier factor}}*(1+{\text{agility disadvantage}})}
    [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
  2. Detection. Allows you to maximize the number of fighters you can deploy, which is three times the number of detected enemy.
    At most three times as many own planes can attack as enemies are visible, so good detection is important to fully utilize available air wings, especially when the enemy has fewer planes.
    [*]The detection chance depends on multiple factors
    • Occupation: Occupying land in the strategic region enables spotting planes from the ground and yields a chance of up to 10% (when controlling the whole region).
    • Radar: Radar coverage yields up to 50% detection chance (at full radar coverage)
    • Air missions: Planes operating in the region yield up to 80% detection chance (with 3000 planes, non-fighters only counting half)
    • (above chances stack additively)
    • Night-time: reduces detection by 20%
    • Bad weather: reduces detection by up to 90%

    • Only this percentage of enemy planes will be visible. The number of visible planes can be further modified:
    • If the enemy side includes both ground missions and superiority fighters, the latter will be fully visible. The fighters and bombers don't need to be from the same enemy country.
    • Regular bombers on strategic bombing mission and carrier-based bombers can reduce their visibility with the "Strategic bombing visibility" modifier (Infiltration Bombing doctrine: -50%).
    • Planes on close air support mission are twice as visible.
    • Planes on port strikes are ten times less visible.
    [*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*][*]
  3. Efficiency. Get more of your fighters in range of the air zone than the enemy to get an advantage. This increases efficiency and effects how many of the planes actually fight.
  4. Pilot experience is a straight up buff that should be exploited fully.
*Edit Sorry for the formatting. I have tried a few times to make it better, but I am out of patience.
 
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okay thx this was more technical which is good

but i have some questions
stats multiplyer hmm is that really that low? 10% fighter vs bomber?
whats is that '40 fighter vs '36 fighter?
what is defender? fe fighter on interception , cas on troop bombing , cas is the defender?
what is damage ? is that how many planes do they shot down?

detection is the area % thing ? fe 40% then enemy field 1000 planes my planes can attack 400 from those? so if i field 2000 fighters only 1200 is used?
and then will it be 1200 fighters vs 400 enemy planes or 1200 fighters vs 1000 enemy planes?

does fleet sizes matter or just how many planes in the area + their efficiency?
 

Harin

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okay thx this was more technical which is good

but i have some questions
stats multiplyer hmm is that really that low? 10% fighter vs bomber?
whats is that '40 fighter vs '36 fighter?
what is defender? fe fighter on interception , cas on troop bombing , cas is the defender?
what is damage ? is that how many planes do they shot down?

detection is the area % thing ? fe 40% then enemy field 1000 planes my planes can attack 400 from those? so if i field 2000 fighters only 1200 is used?
and then will it be 1200 fighters vs 400 enemy planes or 1200 fighters vs 1000 enemy planes?

does fleet sizes matter or just how many planes in the area + their efficiency?

1. That is the stat multiplier formula. The fighter gets the 10.4% buff against the bomber and this result is then used in the damage formula
{\displaystyle {\text{damage}}=0.01*{\text{number of attackers}}*{\text{air attack}}/{\text{air defense}}*(1+{\text{stats multiplier}})*{\text{carrier factor}}*(1+{\text{agility disadvantage}})}
.
2. Each aircraft has an air defense value and is used in the above formula.
3. Each aircraft has a damage value and is used in the above formula.
4. Detection has many variables and listed in the spoiler I provided and to many to type out. Two rules of thumbs to point out though, first 3,000 plane equivalents gives 80% detection. Fighters equal one plane equivalent and everything else 1/2 plane equivalent. Second, complete coverage of the air zone with radar provides 50% detection.
5. Fleet size does not seem to matter, but someone else may know better.

*EDIT
For simplicity's sake, it may be easier to follow this guide:
1. Stack agility for your fighters.
2. Get as many of your planes in full range of the air zone as possible.
3. Use radar to win the detection fight, for when you do not have enough plane equivalents to be competitive.

Winning the efficiency and detection fight, coupled with better agility will net you very favorable loss ratios, per plane. To nominally defeat this disadvantage requires greatly outnumbering the opposition.
 
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oh no.. it must be killing people to show historical swastikas... literally hitler
it should be allowed

I think censorship is alright but not at the cost of mystifying a character or symbol (which may produce an unintended effect). The accurate display of controversial symbol in the context of military (not political propaganda) should be promoted because it serves a very practical purpose. For example, I think the latest Battlefield game actually shows a nazi flag (with the swastika on it) spread out conspicuously on top of the tank. If a wrong symbol was used, it might have confused allied planes above, leading to friendly fire.
 
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1. That is the stat multiplier formula. The fighter gets the 10.4% buff against the bomber and this result is then used in the damage formula
{\displaystyle {\text{damage}}=0.01*{\text{number of attackers}}*{\text{air attack}}/{\text{air defense}}*(1+{\text{stats multiplier}})*{\text{carrier factor}}*(1+{\text{agility disadvantage}})}
.
2. Each aircraft has an air defense value and is used in the above formula.
3. Each aircraft has a damage value and is used in the above formula.
4. Detection has many variables and listed in the spoiler I provided and to many to type out. Two rules of thumbs to point out though, first 3,000 plane equivalents gives 80% detection. Fighters equal one plane equivalent and everything else 1/2 plane equivalent. Second, complete coverage of the air zone with radar provides 50% detection.
5. Fleet size does not seem to matter, but someone else may know better.

*EDIT
For simplicity's sake, it may be easier to follow this guide:
1. Stack agility for your fighters.
2. Get as many of your planes in full range of the air zone as possible.
3. Use radar to win the detection fight, for when you do not have enough plane equivalents to be competitive.

Winning the efficiency and detection fight, coupled with better agility will net you very favorable loss ratios, per plane. To nominally defeat this disadvantage requires greatly outnumbering the opposition.

Okay, I am not a very big fan of technical details (more of an arts guy, than a math and science). But I believe Harin has explained everything quite well, except probably the detection vs efficiency part. I think detection is more of a concern for defenders, while attackers prefer to use efficiency as a metric for successful aerial deployment. Because a defender of airspace wants to detect as many planes as possible, while the attacker wants to bring as many planes to the fight.

So the attacker has to make sure that as many planes can cover the entire range of the air zone, bringing his efficiency to the max. Whereas for defender, he may wants to upgrade things like radar so that a higher percentage of enemy planes can be spotted and engaged. In the wiki, it says:

Planes operating in the region yield up to 80% detection chance (with 3000 planes, non-fighters only counting half).

Edit: So ideally, you would want to guard the airspace with 3000 planes (1500 fighters, 1500 bombers). Other factors aside, 80% detection means that almost all of the enemy planes in the area would be spotted and engaged. And if the actual number of your planes outnumber that of enemy in the area, a high detection chance will ensure almost all your air wings would be fighting them.

For example, if the current airforce in the region has a 80% detection chance, and its number is 3000 fighters. The enemy sent in 1000 fighters to compete with you.
80% of their fighters would be spotted, meaning 800 of them. Your local air force would send out 2400 fighters to fight them. It will not go above that. But if I want to kill the enemy quicker by using the remaining air wings, you can improve radars. That way your detection chance increases to 90%, meaning 900 fighters would be spotted. And that means 2700 of your fighters will go in there to make a kill.


Other factors like nighttime can reduce the detection chance of the planes. This is a useful metric especially for determining the success of a bombing mission. When you want to bomb a city with less detection, you can consider a night mission so less will be spotted and intercepted.
 
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